Best age to spay or neuter? - Page 3 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #21 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-13-2011, 10:01 PM
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Look at the sources for any links, what the agenda is, for or against.

For my females, I prefer to have them done before their first heat. That is based on what I've read and conversations with a few of my vets. I am open to learning more about "partial spay" but for right now am comfortable with the decision I've made for my dogs.

Study this, study that, but here is the deal - so many things go into dogs' health that we can and cannot control: genetics is huge, just like with people, then you have the environment and toxins which are also huge, then nutrition (sort of control) and exercise (helps to have a well bred healthy dog), good care (can try!) and screenings/wellness care (yep), and sun exposure (yep).

I can't control my dogs' genetics because I get them from rescue. I very much try to control their environment but know that is incredibly difficult, I try to feed them well, but we know that things are in our foods, but you try, they exercise, I try to lump check, keep an eye on them, don't let them out unsupervised, and keep them out of the sun tons. So I toss all that together in a Gestalt kind of way so that one thing isn't going to be the end all be all - and race the genetics to the end.

No personality changes, females spayed at all different ages. And no fatties.


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post #22 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-13-2011, 10:14 PM
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I was advised by my vet to spay at 5 months & provided with a bunch of reasons to do so, so I did. All went well & my pup was back to normal the very next day. So many different views on this.....I say just listen to your vet & get on with it or you might go insane!
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post #23 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-13-2011, 10:24 PM
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I am one that would wait male or female for full skeletal development and maturity ....... and have been able to manage fine and the mess was not THAT bad I also just put a towel in the crate and followed around with a cloth. Of course I don't let the dogs on the furniture and could see where that could be a different story.

It is basically a decision YOU will have to be comfortable with either way.

One thing I did though that really seemed to help afterwards was a snug t-shirt on the dog seemed to help keep her stay mellow afterwards and to leave the incisision alone. Nice alternative to the collar which you may or may not need and there are some better alterantive to the cone (bite not and inflatable) you could check on -- if needed.

Nancy



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post #24 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-14-2011, 02:35 AM
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http://www.columbusdogconnection.com...b0Jz3lrLlVG37A


Rebuttal to that pediatric s/n article.
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post #25 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-14-2011, 03:29 AM
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ETA: Working link to above article.

Something to point out, that rebuttal article recites something *way* out of context. The study they are referring to with the %'s for mammary cancer risks were relative risks - as in, corrected from the rebuttal paper:

In fact, the literature states that the risk of developing mammary tumors in dogs spayed prior to the first estrus is 0.5%, 8% after the first estrus, and after the second estrus the risk will increase to 26% relative to the risk of an intact bitch.

Which is, according to the JAVMA, 3.4%. I really don't think more than 1 out of every 4 intact females wind up with mammary tumors (26%). So by spaying after the second estrus cycle your risk drops to 26% of 3.4%. You don't wind up with a 26% risk factor by waiting until after heat #2.

I didn't spot any other glaring flaws but when she misses something as large as this in a rebuttal article I am just as skeptical of her other claims as I am of Dr. Zink's paper (which to the author's credit does have numerous mistakes I can spot right off the bat, but as I'm unable to verify the studies either party is talking about, I'm not really willing to make any kind of decision based on either paper.)

The specific, and simple mistake I pointed out though immediately makes me pretty wary and suspicious that something more is going on than just a simple rebuttal. Her paper is peppered with the same kind of slants and misrepresentations as she is slamming Dr. Zinks for - such as not citing numbers for all the "life threatening problems" she claims threaten intact male dogs, things that "make (the case for) castration in preventative health care for male dogs" obvious.

Certain parts read less like a calm, collected rebuttal to a poorly written paper and more like a persuasive essay.

With that in mind I would hope nobody uses either of these articles to make this big of a decision. The rebuttal is just as bad as the original paper - which, as Dr. Howe pointed out, completely failed to mention a very significant concern for intact females, pyometra.

~

Good luck with your decision, OP. As long as you're deciding what is best for you AND your dog, and doing your homework on the matter, whatever decision you make will be the right one.

Last edited by Draugr; 12-14-2011 at 03:34 AM.
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post #26 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-14-2011, 03:42 AM
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Ack, my edit timer ran out before I could hit post. Or, the 10-minute post timer. Y'all know what I mean .

Anyway to confirm my suspicions (because I didn't want to be a negative nancy from just reading a rebuttal paper) I did a bit of digging on Lisa M Howe, DVM, and came up with this:

Association of Shelter Veterinarians: VTFASN Members

Lisa M Howe

Frequently Asked Questions - Texas A&M Veterinary Medicine & Biomedical Sciences (her answers are at the bottom - and she also incorrectly claims that dogs and female cats don't have secondary sex characteristics)

I think there are certainly some motivations there that would not necessarily make her 100% objective but I will let you decide on that one. Always be sure to look up the author of a paper and see what you can find on him/her. What sorts of things they are involved with, areas of interest, where their money goes or who is giving them money, etc. What you find does not necessarily make them biased/unbiased on principle but it can help to confirm suspicions if something doesn't "sit right" with you. For instance I found several research papers she has published in the subject at hand with major methodological flaws that were not controlled for.

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post #27 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-14-2011, 06:49 AM Thread Starter
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I sent her breeder an email asking him what he thought. He's been breeding, raising and training his dogs for over 30 years.

He suggested that I do NOT spay her. He said he wants to see her first. . Why?, I haven't idea.
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post #28 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-14-2011, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony8858 View Post
I sent her breeder an email asking him what he thought. He's been breeding, raising and training his dogs for over 30 years.

He suggested that I do NOT spay her. He said he wants to see her first. . Why?, I haven't idea.
He may be considering using her in his own breeding program. I am sure there are other reasons but that seems the most logical, or at least the most obvious to me.

Unless you have a funny contract with the breeder, your dog belongs to you and you alone, so keep in mind, if this is not a route you want to go, you have every right in the world to refuse.
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post #29 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-14-2011, 07:09 AM
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Talk to the breeder first. .My own breeder put in the contract that the hip warranty is null and void if the dog is neutered before two.

Nancy



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post #30 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-14-2011, 09:16 AM
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Interesting - because pups we have in rescue that we do prior to adoption already have HD - dx by x-ray. I think if we xrayed pups consistently we would find that the ones who have it after 2, have had it.


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