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Old 02-15-2013, 09:02 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I know of many cases where active working SDs live in a home with other animals. I do not see a need for a thread to give the consensus to the claim that it is wrong for a SD to live in a household with other animals as an absolute. My opinion is that this topic should be based on the SD itself and the way the household is run with all animals in that household as part of the equation.

If an organization does not wish to place a SD in a home with other animals, just as with a rescue that does not wish to foster one of their animals in a home with other animals, then that is a policy that needs to be followed by an individual. If you take on one of their animals then you must follow that opinion as that is a point that organization feels is important and necessary. If an organization states that you must feed one of their animals or work with one of their animals in a certain manner then that is something that you have agreed to when taking one of their animals. If you don't agree then my opinion is you need to look elsewhere.

I do not want a thread such as this, to go without an opposing view, that may lead future readers to believe that the opinion that a SD must live in a home without other animals is something that all SD professionals or experienced handlers believe or the SD community believes as a whole. As with any other choices made - look at your own life experience and knowledge and research further if you believe necessary - and then make an informed decision for yourself and your own circumstances.
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:50 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I know a couple people that have service dogs along with their own "pets" and have never had a problem.

A friend that raises dogs for CCI raises them in her pack of 4.

I also know of a couple that each have their OWN service dog. What would an organization have THEM do - get divorced??
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:04 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Wow this is an interesting thread. I am not sure my comments are relative because i am not sure how you define a SD, but when we decided to raise a Seeing Eye pup we were told that having another dog was a plus. In fact in order to raise a GSD we were required to have an older dog that would reduce some of the alpha behaviors. (Fat lot of good that did as our Aussie is a big wimp.) They seeing eye will place labs and goldens in homes as only dogs but not shepherds. I find this discussion really interesting because i can't tell you how many times i thought to myself "this would be so much easier if i didn't have another dog with another set of rules".

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Old 02-15-2013, 10:30 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangers-mom View Post
Wow this is an interesting thread. I am not sure my comments are relative because i am not sure how you define a SD ... "

Robin

All members are welcome to give their opinion and share their experiences so all are relative.

As far as how a SD is defined: I in my personal non-profit work go with the somewhat more International and definition used by many organizations and some states in speaking in their state statutes with the term Assistance Dog broken down further into categories.

Assistance Dog
1) Guide Dogs
2) Hearing Dogs
3) Service Dogs

When posting here I sometimes go back and forth with the terms *Assistance Dogs* and *Service Dogs* to mean the group of dogs trained to mitigate the disability of an individual as a whole.

When speaking of the Dept. of Justice Regulations and many Federal Laws (which base themselves on the ADA and the followup through the DOJ) I speak of Service Dogs as they define in their documents. Now HUD on the other hand talk of Assistance Dogs in their regs on housing issues.

So sometimes you have to inquire exactly what is meant in a discussion. This is a point that I always try to make when giving a public presentation or workshop on these working dogs.

I just wanted to come back and toss some more distractions into this point to make some people more confused. Just kidding but it does start making one wonder sometimes ....

For threads here on this forum just go with the thought that Service Dog is referring to a dog trained for a PWD and not wonder if it means guide, assistance, medical service etc.
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:40 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I'm with ILGHAUS on that its a case by case basis.

I completely understand why most professional organizations don't want another dog in the house. They know you raised that dog like a pet, and you probably don't quite understand that this is something different. Training/upkeep will erode as you treat your service animal more and more like a pet. The organization spent thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours training a dog and they don't want to see it wasted or put it at any risk for not being able to perform its job to the highest ability.

It is also hard work to keep up with 2 dogs, 3 dogs, or even 4 dogs. Imagine training, giving attention, playing, with that many dogs. I know people do it, but it takes up a lot of time. Now you have a dog that is going to get the majority of a person's attention because of their need for the dog and just the fact that it will always be around them. It's kind of the same thing we see with Schutzhund people rehoming a dog that doesn't work out because they're going to have another dog that is going to get a majority of their attention...its much more fair to the dog to be in a place where they will be the center of attention of a loving family than a second or third dog of another one.
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Old 02-19-2013, 01:23 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILGHAUS View Post
All members are welcome to give their opinion and share their experiences so all are relative.

As far as how a SD is defined: I in my personal non-profit work go with the somewhat more International and definition used by many organizations and some states in speaking in their state statutes with the term Assistance Dog broken down further into categories.

Assistance Dog
1) Guide Dogs
2) Hearing Dogs
3) Service Dogs

When posting here I sometimes go back and forth with the terms *Assistance Dogs* and *Service Dogs* to mean the group of dogs trained to mitigate the disability of an individual as a whole.

When speaking of the Dept. of Justice Regulations and many Federal Laws (which base themselves on the ADA and the followup through the DOJ) I speak of Service Dogs as they define in their documents. Now HUD on the other hand talk of Assistance Dogs in their regs on housing issues.

So sometimes you have to inquire exactly what is meant in a discussion. This is a point that I always try to make when giving a public presentation or workshop on these working dogs.

I just wanted to come back and toss some more distractions into this point to make some people more confused. Just kidding but it does start making one wonder sometimes ....

For threads here on this forum just go with the thought that Service Dog is referring to a dog trained for a PWD and not wonder if it means guide, assistance, medical service etc.
Well written TJ


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Old 02-19-2013, 01:44 PM   #17 (permalink)
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My lead K9 instructor prefers that my working K9 be seperated from our pet. The biggest concern is that K9s work 10 hours a day and need lots of rest before thier next 10 hour day.

They cant get that rest if they're wrestling around with any other dogs in the house.

Weekends of course is play time for everyone!
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:32 PM   #18 (permalink)
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My lead K9 instructor prefers that my working K9 be seperated from our pet. The biggest concern is that K9s work 10 hours a day and need lots of rest before thier next 10 hour day.

They cant get that rest if they're wrestling around with any other dogs in the house.

Weekends of course is play time for everyone!
There is an old saying, the only thing two trainers will ever agree on is what the third one is doing wrong
With that said, the ultimate proof in performance of a working dog is in the pudding. I agree that working dogs need down time, I believe that downtime needs to be consistent in both time and location to avoid conflict that will effect there job.


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Old 02-24-2013, 12:28 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I disagree with this rule used as an absolute as well. And its caused me a lot of trouble lol. Ruled out many organizations I would have liked to talk to about acquiring a service dog from.

I feel it depends very much on the individual case. With animals training never stops, you can place a perfectly trained SD in a home with someone who will not continue that training and the dog will act like a pet and not a SD rather quickly. Thats why reputable organizations require the handlers to go through training to be able to keep up the training of the dog. I've seen SDs from great organizations that don't act like SDs any longer, and SDs owner trained that rival the best organizations. It all depends.

I currently have a semi retired (due to health) service dog and my other dog who is a service dog in training washout. I refuse to rehome her, she's a member of the family. I also plan to continue using her to assist me at home since mobility assistance is so physically demanding, and she washed out because I don't trust her in public access the way is required. As I'm looking for a SD to fully retire my current one, not many organizations would accept me. And unfortunately due to the progression of my disabilities I don't feel I would be physically able to start over again and reach the level of training required for a dog to be a SD. I also am picky wanting to stay with my GSDs lol, which further complicates things. So currently I've only found one organization that meets my needs and I meet their requirements. But I'll have to fundraise quite a lot and won't be receiving my next SD for a few years as a result.
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Old 02-25-2013, 02:03 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I disagree with this rule used as an absolute as well. And its caused me a lot of trouble lol. Ruled out many organizations I would have liked to talk to about acquiring a service dog from.

I feel it depends very much on the individual case. With animals training never stops, you can place a perfectly trained SD in a home with someone who will not continue that training and the dog will act like a pet and not a SD rather quickly. Thats why reputable organizations require the handlers to go through training to be able to keep up the training of the dog. I've seen SDs from great organizations that don't act like SDs any longer, and SDs owner trained that rival the best organizations. It all depends.

I currently have a semi retired (due to health) service dog and my other dog who is a service dog in training washout. I refuse to rehome her, she's a member of the family. I also plan to continue using her to assist me at home since mobility assistance is so physically demanding, and she washed out because I don't trust her in public access the way is required. As I'm looking for a SD to fully retire my current one, not many organizations would accept me. And unfortunately due to the progression of my disabilities I don't feel I would be physically able to start over again and reach the level of training required for a dog to be a SD. I also am picky wanting to stay with my GSDs lol, which further complicates things. So currently I've only found one organization that meets my needs and I meet their requirements. But I'll have to fundraise quite a lot and won't be receiving my next SD for a few years as a result.
I would agree with you 100% on this. ADI is not cutting it and does not have any variance. In spite of the short supply and demand in relation to Service Dogs, they want a monopoly on the Military. This would exclude owner trainers and PTSD dogs (a type of Service Dog that our wounded warriors will need the most). This is reinforced by the new order signed by the Secretary of the Army in January.
SDS Service Dog Schools is an accreditation organization that has an SD code that is truly universal that allows for all types of Service Dogs with a real guarantee to the PWD that the SD will be certified and annually re certified to ensure the SD meets minimum performance tolerances.

As for the "Absolute", because human nature had a big "monkey see monkey do" attitude, to ensure that the word discrimination does not rear it's ugly head on this, An absolute is the only realistic option at this time. At least till SDS gets the code published and a better handle on the nonsense within the SD industry.


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