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Old 01-13-2013, 05:42 PM   #71 (permalink)
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I found this video on the Canine Companions for Independence website. To me it shows that a Service Dog can be handled by other people, play with other dogs and do things OTHER than just service work all the time:

Hearing Dogs - Canine Companions for Independence

Scroll down to the bottom of the page for the video.
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Old 01-13-2013, 05:50 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lauri & The Gang View Post
Not as long as it was coupled with the "as long as your dog is CAPABLE" statement.

You made a blanket statement - a Service Dog cannot/should not be a Therapy Dog. I challenge that blanket statement.

Heck - you advocate a raw diet. What would you do if a dog choked to death on a raw turkey neck?

There is nothing in their world that is 100% guaranteed - no matter what the salesmen say.
I do advocate for an all-natural raw diet but I will not say there is no risk at all especially to the masses that may get the wrong impression of what I said. And if I did say there was no risk at all and something happened, I would feel terrible.
By stating the truth that there is risk in doing so, (and there is) It cautions people that have a false impression that they and their dog can do anything without the real experience needed to back that up. I would also challenge those that say that they have no problems to take a unbiased PAT to make sure what they are saying is actual fact vs. what they think.
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Old 01-13-2013, 06:13 PM   #73 (permalink)
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I'd take the word of an actual Service Dog OWNER/HANDLER over any number of trainers any day.
OK the next time a dog is compromised by working as both a SD and a TD I will be sure to have them and the others that have fallen into this trap contact you directly. PM me your phone number so I can relay it to these people and orgs I know so you can take the "OWNER/HANDLER" word for it yourself. While on the surface the impression of "nothing is wrong with it" is evident here in an owner trainer capacity. The truth behind this is a lot deeper than what is on the surface in this forum.
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:00 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lauri & The Gang View Post
I found this video on the Canine Companions for Independence website. To me it shows that a Service Dog can be handled by other people, play with other dogs and do things OTHER than just service work all the time:

Hearing Dogs - Canine Companions for Independence

Scroll down to the bottom of the page for the video.
What you see in the video is irrelevant, CCI does not allow there Service Dogs to function as anything but a Service Dog for the disabled handler. Give them a call and tell them you want one of their dogs as a Service Dog and then have the dog registered and function as a visiting therapy dog as well and see what they tell you.
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Old 01-14-2013, 09:55 PM   #75 (permalink)
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I was always under the impression that a working dog should be ignored - the majority of service dogs I've seen have been guide dogs. When I've admired service dogs, talking to their owners, I've been told not to interact with their dogs. I did meet a service dog in a restaurant this summer, and the owner was encouraging people to pet the dog. In all my years, that was the only one I've ever seen who was allowed to interact with strangers.

My previous GSD was a Therapy Dog, and he was a much-loved pet. I enjoyed sharing him with others - but I'll be honest, if I actually relied on him to provide me with a 'service' (as it fits under the definition of service dog) I wouldn't be so generous. I would worry that he might somehow be corrupted and be incapable of performing his duties 100%. Not only that, I wouldn't want him gallivanting around town without me.

If I was in the position to visit with my dog, then I'd worry that I was asking too much of him. Visiting is tiring and a job in itself, with the visits being timed at 45 min. for the dog's sake.
That is a responsible thought process. Sorry missed your post earlier… well said
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:07 PM   #76 (permalink)
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My previous GSD was a Therapy Dog, and he was a much-loved pet. I enjoyed sharing him with others - but I'll be honest, if I actually relied on him to provide me with a 'service' (as it fits under the definition of service dog) I wouldn't be so generous. I would worry that he might somehow be corrupted and be incapable of performing his duties 100%. Not only that, I wouldn't want him gallivanting around town without me.
This is how I feel as well. We do "therapy" with some of our own dogs when I visit my grandparents in the nursing home they are in; I can't imagine taking a piece of equipment like a SD and trying to do the same with one. Totally opposing "jobs", if you will.
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Old 01-14-2013, 11:15 PM   #77 (permalink)
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This is how I feel as well. We do "therapy" with some of our own dogs when I visit my grandparents in the nursing home they are in; I can't imagine taking a piece of equipment like a SD and trying to do the same with one. Totally opposing "jobs", if you will.
That is correct and puts the dog in direct conflict as well. I do not know if the training terminology I am using is completely understood by everyone but I will give the Professional working dog trainers point of view on this:
My late father trained MWD, MP-K9, SchH titled multiple dogs while was a master teaching helper/agitator and lecturer SV Germany Late 40’s and again in the early 70’s, Trained multiple Police patrol and narcotics detection dogs Maryland State Police. Trained multiple personal protection dogs and dogs to assist PWD. He had 40+ years of training working dogs and teaching trainers and handlers for real life situations before he passed away in 1997.
(From his notes please do not reproduce)
“Working dogs that are put in direct conflict of their main role as a working dog is at serious risk for training backslides as associative behaviors related to the conflict will present itself. The working dog in conflict will test its limits and boundaries in spite of how well the initial conditioning was. On the contrary to normal logic in this instance the better the training and conditioning is for the main role of the working dog the more stress is created in relation to the conflict in the dogs mind. This has proven to translate to a greater initial test on the limits and boundaries from the dog.”(c)CSGM Francis X McCormack CDT LOM BS VCOG RET
While I do not expect everyone to understand this, I would hope that you can understand that this is coming from a man that had trained working dogs all his life to levels of competency that still baffles even me today.
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:28 PM   #78 (permalink)
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Though it is an older study and report some may find it interesting to read:

Service and Therapy Work: Can One Dog Do Both? By Debi Davis, Originally
published in Alert, National Service Dog Center®
Newsletter Vol. 10, No. 1 1999. Edited for the web and updates.
ILGHAUS, I have read the report. The claims are biased and not clearly supported by anyone specific that is a professional trainer org that produces Service Dogs. They are owner trainers... fair?
Any good professional working dog trainer will read the claims and shake there head as the conflict in the dog is not even recognized by their own statements and brushed off by saying "the dog can handle it."
As I said before. don't just take my word for it or Camspacks word for it, call a major Service Dog organization, ask them why it is not acceptable to practice the dual role. Delta (Pet Partners) is a politically motivated machine. What is the one thing a politician does best? You guessed it… they LIE.
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Old 01-23-2013, 11:33 PM   #79 (permalink)
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Does this happen a lot? (using SD for Therapy work also)

I can't picture a leader dog leaving it's handler for any reason so if anyone knows, what jobs are these SD's doing where their handlers only need them part time? (hope that made sense)
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Old 01-23-2013, 11:54 PM   #80 (permalink)
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Does this happen a lot? (using SD for Therapy work also)

I can't picture a leader dog leaving it's handler for any reason so if anyone knows, what jobs are these SD's doing where their handlers only need them part time? (hope that made sense)
Where are you seeing anyone saying that a guide dog is leaving their handler? Therapy Dogs stay right with their handlers - they are not seperated.

Some activities of Therapy Dogs and their handlers:
Give demos to children in a classroom on how to act around a strange dog
Listen to children with speach/learning/reading difficulties read a book "to the dog".
Stop off in hospital rooms to say hello and chat with a patient.

If I use a Service Dog for mobility work such as help me stand from a chair or lean against if I start to loose my balance why would it be so wrong for me to sit in a chair next to someone in a nursing home and let them lay their hand on my dog's head and tell me a story about when they had a dog? Do you honestly think that such a visit for a short time would ruin a dog for his main purpose?

Service Dogs are allowed to interact with friends and family of a PWD. The thing is the handler chooses when and where. The handler doesn't want someone interacting with the dog at times when the dog is needed to work for the handler. They share downtime together much like a pet dog and owner.

Just because someone has a disability doesn't mean they don't have interests and hobbies like non-disabled people.

If a dog can not (is not able to) respond to the needs of the handler while they are sitting quietly talking to someone or while listening to a child read a book then how is this dog going to be able respond to the handler while the dog is asleep or in a different room?

Guide Dog handlers don't keep their dogs in harness 24/7. Most don't even use their GD in their own homes the majority of the time they are there. Service Dogs are allowed to run around their yard, chase balls, go swimming, and act like any other well-taken care of dog from time to time. Doctors need down time, airplane pilots need down time, so do teachers etc. etc. just as Police K9s have time to chill out as do military dogs. So if a PWD wants to do agility, or obedience, or visit someone in a nursing home or hospital why would that not be allowed?
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Last edited by ILGHAUS; 01-24-2013 at 01:03 AM. Reason: spelling
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