Why not a SD that is also a visiting TD? - Page 7 - German Shepherd Dog Forums

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Old 01-12-2013, 04:28 PM   #61 (permalink)
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thanks for answering.

Couple more Q's if you don't mind, its always a learning experience

Do you yourself, meet up with clients say, during the year to brush up/make sure the dogs are up to par (sorry bad choice of words, but couldn't think of another),,

How long are clients in training with you and their dog?? Do you go to them, do they go to you?

Just curious how many dogs you've certified thru your program?
thanks
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Old 01-12-2013, 08:00 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Dually noted
This would be duly noted! Isn't English fun? LOL
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Old 01-13-2013, 02:51 AM   #63 (permalink)
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SFGSSD- I can understand where you're coming from but as the handler of my third service dog and being in the middle of training my fourth I respectfully disagree that it is an undue burden on the dog to also fill the role of Therapy dog. It is the duty of the handler to make sure that their dog is not stressed and that their training and behavior doesn't slip but that needs to be a choice made by the handler based on their dog.

And it really is a case by case issue... my current dog loves to work and is completely handler focused but in most cases could care less about other people. He would get no joy and a great deal of stress if I forced him to do Therapy work.

My service dog before that loved people and her greatest joy following service work was making people smile. She was very active in therapy work and brought a lot of joy to a lot of people and I hate to think that that could have been denied to her by people who made blanket policies.

Each dog is different, and depending on the dog there's no reason that they can't enjoy being there for other people when they are off duty.

A handler may not always have the training that the trainer does but they are the ones who live by their dogs and must be completely in tune with their dog. No matter if they're owner trained or trained by a program the handler should have the information to make the best decision for themselves and their dogs.

I've been a service dog handler for a very long time and apprenticed with some of the best trainers on the east coast in my opinion, and I think it's wrong for a therapy dog organization to make a policy that would keep one of my dogs from doing something that they love.
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Old 01-13-2013, 01:55 PM   #64 (permalink)
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This would be duly noted! Isn't English fun? LOL
I apologies for any spelling or grammatical errors, I am a dog trainer after all and not an English major or a journalist.
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Old 01-13-2013, 02:02 PM   #65 (permalink)
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SFGSSD- I can understand where you're coming from but as the handler of my third service dog and being in the middle of training my fourth I respectfully disagree that it is an undue burden on the dog to also fill the role of Therapy dog.
If you truly understood this position from a professional working dog training standpoint, you would also understand that stress and stress induced by conflict is tolling on the dog. I see your other post in this forum and in that regard we are on the same page. We can continue this conversation there.
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:08 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JakodaCD OA View Post
thanks for answering.

Couple more Q's if you don't mind, its always a learning experience

Do you yourself, meet up with clients say, during the year to brush up/make sure the dogs are up to par (sorry bad choice of words, but couldn't think of another),,

How long are clients in training with you and their dog?? Do you go to them, do they go to you?

Just curious how many dogs you've certified thru your program?
thanks
Yes we do meet up with clients to make sure there dog is functioning properly periodically. I do this for any type of training not just Service Dogs. My clients can also call me any time to address issued that they may encounter even after the training is complete. I do this at no extra charge if something out of the ordinary happens. If the client however does not follow directions and recommendations and continues to have issues from their own negligence, I do charge for the extra time that should not be spent in the first place.

How long does it take to train? For Service Dogs, it is over 2000 hours for the dog and over 200 for the handler. This equates to 1-1.5 years on average for both my owner training program and dogs that I provide fully trained. This is ultimately contingent upon the dog and the handler’s individual learning pace. *NOTE Owner trainers get just as much (if not more) training as the dog does.

How many have I personally certified as a Service Dog? 18, How many dogs have I trained or been involved with as far as the training is concerned? 100’s I am not a big org, although I have 25+ years of working dog training experience, I have focused on training Service Dogs for disabled people mainly for only the past 4 years. I believe in quality over quality. What my late father and I was seeing in the Service Dog field (poorly trained program dogs and handlers as well as the poorly trained owner trained Service Dogs and the fake ones) and the fact that disabilities are something that is within my family from myself, my father, nieces, nephews cousins, it is something I take personally and very seriously.

I am not a politician; I believe that the product speaks for itself. One of my clients agreed to allow me to post the entire public access test (video) he will go through soon on line. This video will be posted at the end of January early February at the latest.

I wish I could help more people that need Service Dogs however at this time, the funding and the competent help I need to expand is lacking. Either way, I would rather put out 4-6 great dogs a year than 50+ that only 10 would be acceptable to my standards of performance.
While I appreciate the questions and interest in what I do, please try to stay on topic of the original post. If you have unrelated questions please feel free to contact me directly or start a new thread. Thank You.
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:27 PM   #67 (permalink)
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If you truly understood this position from a professional working dog training standpoint, you would also understand that stress and stress induced by conflict is tolling on the dog.
I still can't understand how you can be so adamant about this when you have had several Service Dog handlers tell you that their dogs did both with no problems.

I agree with JeaneneR - it all depends on the dog (even for those that are NOT Service Dogs).
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:48 PM   #68 (permalink)
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I still can't understand how you can be so adamant about this when you have had several Service Dog handlers tell you that their dogs did both with no problems.

I agree with JeaneneR - it all depends on the dog (even for those that are NOT Service Dogs).
It is not just the dog it is also the handler as I explained in my original post. "did both with no problems" is the issue that is being ignored by the masses that look at dog training and there dog through rose colored glasses.



Should this be on a case by case basis? I am on the fence with that one as the word "Discrimination" has been used in connection with this.



I can send multiple professional working dog trainers to back my position here as well and not just anonymously. The suggestion that there is ABSOLUTLY nothing wrong with this practice is false. It is that position that I am standing firm on as inexperienced people can get the wrong impression by that statement. How would you feel if someone took the advice that “Nothing is wrong with it” and something happened that caused injury or death to the SD handler because of it? Would you take responsibility for the advice you gave? Would any of you personally take responsibility for giving the nothing is wrong with it advice?
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Old 01-13-2013, 05:24 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Would any of you personally take responsibility for giving the nothing is wrong with it advice?
Not as long as it was coupled with the "as long as your dog is CAPABLE" statement.

You made a blanket statement - a Service Dog cannot/should not be a Therapy Dog. I challenge that blanket statement.

Heck - you advocate a raw diet. What would you do if a dog choked to death on a raw turkey neck?

There is nothing in their world that is 100% guaranteed - no matter what the salesmen say.
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Old 01-13-2013, 05:29 PM   #70 (permalink)
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I can send multiple professional working dog trainers to back my position here as well and not just anonymously. The suggestion that there is ABSOLUTLY nothing wrong with this practice is false.
I'd take the word of an actual Service Dog OWNER/HANDLER over any number of trainers any day.

And I don't have much regard for trainers who speak in absolutes. People who say "My way is the ONLY way" are not open to new learning.

One thing I pride myself on as a trainer is to try all sorts of different ways to teach things until I find the way that works for my learners. One way does not always work for EVERY learner.
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