Anyone breeding a "line" of GSDs for service?

[Andaka]

Originally Posted by Xeph

Heck, I'd love to see the answer to this, as I'm in the position of needing to find a new candidate myself.

What happened to your young male?

[SFGSSD]

I wish I had all the answers. At this point, with me anyway, I consider what I am doing theory. Till I or anyone else can prove the balance, drive, trainability, workability, nerve, along with a VA it is still theory. I wish it was more than that but I don't feel that it is at this point.
Bottom line, These days I have never seen a WGSL work as well as your typical top working lines however I seen a lot of them that are over the top. While I have seen more balance (for my taste) in the WGSL I also see a lot of areas in the line that is lacking as well.

While Max von Stephaniz- did say “Keep my breed a working dog as I worked all my live to achieve that goal .” He did not say (to the best of my knowledge) it was acceptable to take away from the appearance to do so.

[Xeph]

What happened to your young male?

He is still here, but he is not suitable for public access work. Great for sport, terrible for service like this

[ladylaw203]

There are plenty of high lines working as police service dogs. I have handled them and certify them for departments. I have Czech dogs currently. There are a lot of nervy working lines out there. One has to thoroughly evaluate the dog not the pedigree.

[Freestep]

Originally Posted by SFGSSD

While Max von Stephaniz- did say “Keep my breed a working dog as I worked all my live to achieve that goal .” He did not say (to the best of my knowledge) it was acceptable to take away from the appearance to do so.

If he did say that working ability was more important than appearance, would it change your mind?

[Whiteshepherds]

Originally Posted by Freestep

If he did say that working ability was more important than appearance, would it change your mind?

Here's some quotes from Max.

"The Shepherd dog is a service dog & must be bred as a service dog AND must only be judged as a service dog. With service dogs, suitability ranks higher than beauty: indeed their real beauty and their only nobility consist in their complete adaptability in the arrangement, balancing and coalescence of each & every part."

"The basis of the judgement must be the service which is demanded of the dog: shy, weak-nerved animals are to be marked as injurious to the breed, even as over-bred dogs (oversize) are not true to breed type. In addition: a good shepherd expression, a lively disposition, a long well-knit body suitably proportioned for service, not spongy or bulky, whose form guarantees a stretching out & swift gait, with powers of endurance are among the first qualifications. In the case of bitches, solidity is preferred to beauty...oversize or bitch-like dogs and the fading of color coat are injurious from the point of view of breeding & are to be marked accordingly. Defects in body-build and gait, teeth, jaw, head, ears, tail, haircoat, general coloring, and eye color may exercise an influence in marking. Short, stumpy tailed dogs, albinos are dismissed as harmful to the breed."

"Exaggeration is bad in all circumstances."

[SFGSSD]

Originally Posted by Freestep

If he did say that working ability was more important than appearance, would it change your mind?

"Exaggeration is bad in all circumstances." Unless I am misunderstanding this in some way... He want the workability to be a priority but the "Exaggeration"... he means this in both work and appearance of the GSD.
While I agree the "working line" works better it is not the point. The point is that they don't look as good anymore and the "Exaggeration" in that line is producing temperaments that are over the top. For other types of work like Police, MWD, ect. That is great for the most part, till you team a over the top police dog with a inexperienced Police officer as the handler then it can be trouble.
The Exaggeration in Show line is typically the over angulation (Pia is spot on) and temperaments that are too soft and needless to say lower drives, weaker nerve and workability.
What I am looking for in my breeding program is the desired opposite in each line without going down the road of "Exaggeration". I am looking to build on that. When I can build lines that are closer to what I am looking for from the other side. Then an interracial (Or outcross) breeding should be more stable in creating a line that will produce consistency in what your breeding goals are. (Again this is theory and my explanation of this theory is very simplified here)
Freestep, I see you tugging me to the all working line side. Don't think I do not appreciate the qualities the working lines have... I do more than you may know, however the typical temperament IMO is Exaggerated.

[SFGSSD]

Originally Posted by ladylaw203

There are plenty of high lines working as police service dogs. I have handled them and certify them for departments. I have Czech dogs currently. There are a lot of nervy working lines out there. One has to thoroughly evaluate the dog not the pedigree.

While the pedigree can give you a "GOOD IDEA" of what you are working with, I agree 100% "One has to thoroughly evaluate the dog".
This is more important today than in the past. Pedigree with titles and workability ON PAPER was the basis of a lot of breeding’s. You cannot trust the pedigree like you use to nor does pedigree show TRUE workability in the dog anymore. (Paper titles from dogs that have NEVER seen a trial field are not just isolated cases anymore)
Nice dog BTW I love the all black GSD as well. When I am ready to do an "outcross" it will more than likely be an all black working line GSD

[Freestep]

Originally Posted by SFGSSD

While I agree the "working line" works better it is not the point. The point is that they don't look as good anymore and the "Exaggeration" in that line is producing temperaments that are over the top. For other types of work like Police, MWD, ect. That is great for the most part, till you team a over the top police dog with a inexperienced Police officer as the handler then it can be trouble.

There is more than one working line. I think you are talking about sport breeding. Not all working lines are the same; some are better for sport, others are more suited for real work, some can do both.

Freestep, I see you tugging me to the all working line side. Don't think I do not appreciate the qualities the working lines have... I do more than you may know, however the typical temperament IMO is Exaggerated.

I'm not "tugging" you anywhere, I don't know what bloodlines you are breeding now, since you won't tell us. I started this thread so that you could see how other people are doing it.

[SFGSSD]

Originally Posted by Whiteshepherds

Here's some quotes from Max.

Thank you for posting this