EPI and breeding

chruby · 11-17-2008, 11:00 AM

Would like to hear the opinion of breeders and non breeders on the topic of EPI and breeding. If you own both a male and female that have produced EPI progeny would you breed either dog again? Assuming that the original pair would NOT be bred but also knowing they are both carriers as it takes both a male and female carrier to produce EPI pups.

Would love to hear everyone's thoughts on this? Would you breed the male or female again to a different partner? As puppy buyer's would you purchase a puppy from a known carrier bred to a dog that has not been identified as a known carrier?

**angelaw** · 11-17-2008, 11:03 AM

Either one would have to be a really awesome dog with lines I couldn't find somewhere else (unlikely). EPI isn't like an allergy. It's much worse, imo. I wouldn't knowingly buy a puppy from a known carrier. To produce pups with EPI or megaE then to sell them to an unsuspecting public (while you know they are carriers) is unethical, imo. People are looking for healthy pets, not ones known to produce sick ones.

chruby · 11-17-2008, 11:18 AM

I agree with you Angela.

There is a post on another board that prompted this question for me.

I have an EPI dog also.

jes,mag,misty · 11-17-2008, 01:17 PM

After having an EPI dog (RIP Jazzi) I would beg them not to. I was lucky because I did the research and figured out what was wrong with Jazzi and had the vet test. She went downhill so fast in that two weeks. Another week and we would have lost her at that time. I don't believe just everyday pet owners would have a clue but because I am here on this board and others I knew what symptoms were. To this day many vets are very uninformed of this disease.
I'd say to knowingly breed a dog that pups could suffer (starve)and die would be horrible. I'm not saying people would intentionally let their dog suffer, just that it takes a dedicated owner to search what is going on and that sometimes takes a LOT of time and possibly money at the vet. Many people can't or won't spend the type of money that all of us do to keep our dogs healthy. Most of us on here are informed owners but I can guarantee the people down the road from me with a GSD in a kennel, gets fed and watered, never out and never any attention....would they care?? NO...they used to have hunting dogs, one wasn't feeling well so they turned it out to die.
After we had Jazzi on her enzymes she was fine for several years until she died from something else. It was expensive for the enzymes and time consuming for fixing her food. Did we care, nope, she was our girl and greatly loved. It was just a way of life for us. As soon as she was healthy again, she was spayed.
If bred, they would just be putting a litter of pups out there that may needlessly suffer. Most breeders I know care about their pups and would never want that for them.
Robbie

chruby · 11-18-2008, 08:35 AM

We have quite a few breeders on the board and only one response??

How about potential puppy buyers?

Heidigsd · 11-18-2008, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Quote:How about potential puppy buyers?

I have also been following this topic on the other board. I will eventually get another puppy and I am very concerned about EPI. After dealing with Heidi's multiple health issues over the last thirteen years, I am almost to the point of not wanting another dog.

I would like to know how breeders screen stud dogs they are planning on using for their females. Do you just rely on the stud owners honesty? Or do they not worry about it because they know that their female is not a carrier?

Michaela

**lhczth** · 11-18-2008, 10:32 AM

We have to rely on the stud owners honesty and the information through the grapevine (which can be false as often as it is true) then pray that nothing unplanned shows up in our litters.

When they find the genetic marker(s) than it may make things easier.

Would I use a dog again that has produced EPI? It would have to be an exceptional animal. If they produced a second case when bred to a second unrelated dog that dog would be retired from breeding. And, yes, I realize many will disagree with me. We take chances every time we breed.

WiscTiger · 11-18-2008, 01:23 PM

OK, Not a breeder (maybe some day yes - maybe no), but as someone who has purchased 4 GSD's I would run away from a pup that has parents that have produced EPI pups. I would rather deal with Slightly dysplastic hips/ DJD elbows and allergies before EPI or Mega-E. These pups could have the best temperament the best conformation and I wouldn't purchase.

In a breed that has a pretty large list of problems why would you intentionally breed dogs that have already produced EPI pups.

I can see what Lisa is saying to try with a different mate and see waht happens, That is a slight possiblity.

Val

SunCzarina · 11-18-2008, 02:19 PM

Back before the net, I had an EPI dog. Rex was a wonderful dog but if I had access to the information out there today, I never would have taken him home.

TO make matters worse, he had a long list of other issues. By the time EPI was diagnosed,I felt like his breeder had gotten sick of hearing from me. As in, she didn't care her dogs were throwing EPI pups, she was in it for the money.

Rhino · 11-18-2008, 10:19 PM

After just losing my partner to complications of EPI I am totally against breeding EPI positive dogs.

It is not ever day we find the type of dog that will pass our certifications and to have one get sick or die prematurely is a blow to not only me but the people that count on us.

Having an EPI dog has put one nasty taste in my mouth about the breed.

11-17-2008, 11:00 AM	#1 (permalink)
chruby Crowned Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 5,382	EPI and breeding Would like to hear the opinion of breeders and non breeders on the topic of EPI and breeding. If you own both a male and female that have produced EPI progeny would you breed either dog again? Assuming that the original pair would NOT be bred but also knowing they are both carriers as it takes both a male and female carrier to produce EPI pups. Would love to hear everyone's thoughts on this? Would you breed the male or female again to a different partner? As puppy buyer's would you purchase a puppy from a known carrier bred to a dog that has not been identified as a known carrier? __________________ Mom to: Quiki vom Dreieck aka Maya, TDI ~TC ~ CGC ~ TD ~ UDT Fenja von Wolfstraum aka Heidi, TDI ~ CGC ~ CD ~ BH Gass Moravia Artex aka Chico, BH ~ AD ~ SchH3 RIP- Roxy, Boone & King

11-17-2008, 11:03 AM	#2 (permalink)
angelaw Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Brooksville, FL Posts: 15,225	Re: EPI and breeding Either one would have to be a really awesome dog with lines I couldn't find somewhere else (unlikely). EPI isn't like an allergy. It's much worse, imo. I wouldn't knowingly buy a puppy from a known carrier. To produce pups with EPI or megaE then to sell them to an unsuspecting public (while you know they are carriers) is unethical, imo. People are looking for healthy pets, not ones known to produce sick ones. __________________ Angela http://www.vomlandholz.com Hardy, Diesel, Jet, Denial v. Zioner Berg, Iris & Patches the cats

11-17-2008, 11:18 AM	#3 (permalink)
chruby Crowned Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 5,382	Re: EPI and breeding I agree with you Angela. There is a post on another board that prompted this question for me. I have an EPI dog also. __________________ Mom to: Quiki vom Dreieck aka Maya, TDI ~TC ~ CGC ~ TD ~ UDT Fenja von Wolfstraum aka Heidi, TDI ~ CGC ~ CD ~ BH Gass Moravia Artex aka Chico, BH ~ AD ~ SchH3 RIP- Roxy, Boone & King

11-17-2008, 01:17 PM	#4 (permalink)
jes,mag,misty Knighted Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: fl Posts: 2,031	Re: EPI and breeding After having an EPI dog (RIP Jazzi) I would beg them not to. I was lucky because I did the research and figured out what was wrong with Jazzi and had the vet test. She went downhill so fast in that two weeks. Another week and we would have lost her at that time. I don't believe just everyday pet owners would have a clue but because I am here on this board and others I knew what symptoms were. To this day many vets are very uninformed of this disease. I'd say to knowingly breed a dog that pups could suffer (starve)and die would be horrible. I'm not saying people would intentionally let their dog suffer, just that it takes a dedicated owner to search what is going on and that sometimes takes a LOT of time and possibly money at the vet. Many people can't or won't spend the type of money that all of us do to keep our dogs healthy. Most of us on here are informed owners but I can guarantee the people down the road from me with a GSD in a kennel, gets fed and watered, never out and never any attention....would they care?? NO...they used to have hunting dogs, one wasn't feeling well so they turned it out to die. After we had Jazzi on her enzymes she was fine for several years until she died from something else. It was expensive for the enzymes and time consuming for fixing her food. Did we care, nope, she was our girl and greatly loved. It was just a way of life for us. As soon as she was healthy again, she was spayed. If bred, they would just be putting a litter of pups out there that may needlessly suffer. Most breeders I know care about their pups and would never want that for them. Robbie __________________ Robbie Jesse, Oakley, and Xander's Mom Sweet, gentle Maggie, in our hearts forever! Our hearts are still broken Jazzi, we miss you so much! In Loving Memory of Misty. We love you Misty Mist. We'll never forget you Callie and Quebec.

11-18-2008, 08:35 AM	#5 (permalink)
chruby Crowned Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 5,382	Re: EPI and breeding We have quite a few breeders on the board and only one response?? How about potential puppy buyers? __________________ Mom to: Quiki vom Dreieck aka Maya, TDI ~TC ~ CGC ~ TD ~ UDT Fenja von Wolfstraum aka Heidi, TDI ~ CGC ~ CD ~ BH Gass Moravia Artex aka Chico, BH ~ AD ~ SchH3 RIP- Roxy, Boone & King

11-18-2008, 10:32 AM	#7 (permalink)
lhczth Administrator & LOTR Addict Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 11,698	Re: EPI and breeding We have to rely on the stud owners honesty and the information through the grapevine (which can be false as often as it is true) then pray that nothing unplanned shows up in our litters. When they find the genetic marker(s) than it may make things easier. Would I use a dog again that has produced EPI? It would have to be an exceptional animal. If they produced a second case when bred to a second unrelated dog that dog would be retired from breeding. And, yes, I realize many will disagree with me. We take chances every time we breed. __________________ Lisa Clark Zu Treuen Händen Working German Shepherd Dogs *South Michigan SchH and Police Club*

11-18-2008, 01:23 PM	#8 (permalink)
WiscTiger Crowned Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 15,171	Re: EPI and breeding OK, Not a breeder (maybe some day yes - maybe no), but as someone who has purchased 4 GSD's I would run away from a pup that has parents that have produced EPI pups. I would rather deal with Slightly dysplastic hips/ DJD elbows and allergies before EPI or Mega-E. These pups could have the best temperament the best conformation and I wouldn't purchase. In a breed that has a pretty large list of problems why would you intentionally breed dogs that have already produced EPI pups. I can see what Lisa is saying to try with a different mate and see waht happens, That is a slight possiblity. Val __________________ Wisctiger@msn.com Cheyenne-2/02 DeeDee Little Bit-6/02 Lakota-1/03 Raya-9/05

11-18-2008, 02:19 PM	#9 (permalink)
SunCzarina Crowned Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 12,031	Re: EPI and breeding Back before the net, I had an EPI dog. Rex was a wonderful dog but if I had access to the information out there today, I never would have taken him home. TO make matters worse, he had a long list of other issues. By the time EPI was diagnosed,I felt like his breeder had gotten sick of hearing from me. As in, she didn't care her dogs were throwing EPI pups, she was in it for the money. __________________ -Jenn Otto von Hena-C 05/23/08 Morgan Donnermond 08/04/01 I have duct tape and I am not afraid to use it.

11-18-2008, 10:19 PM	#10 (permalink)
Rhino Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 145	Re: EPI and breeding After just losing my partner to complications of EPI I am totally against breeding EPI positive dogs. It is not ever day we find the type of dog that will pass our certifications and to have one get sick or die prematurely is a blow to not only me but the people that count on us. Having an EPI dog has put one nasty taste in my mouth about the breed.

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