pups full size vs sire and dam

lcht2 · 07-28-2008, 10:35 AM

i know that dogs that come from the same litter grow differently but will a male pup be the same size as his sire?? or is it possible he could take up some traits from "grandparents??"

**MaggieRoseLee** · 07-28-2008, 07:08 PM

You may want to move this to the breeder section. People who breed tend to keep track to their pups and would be able to help.

I personally think it's a bit of a genetic crap shoot! If the male and female are smaller, the pups may TEND to be the same. But that doesn't mean for all the pups in the litter. Probably easier to tell on a repeat breeding also...

BlackGSD · 07-28-2008, 07:55 PM

I agree, it is a "crap shoot". I have seen puppies that grew to be larger than BOTH parents and I have seen them end up smaller than either parent. "Generally" you could expect them to be "about" the size of the parents.

**Chris Wild** · 07-28-2008, 08:05 PM

No way to know for sure based just on the parents. Depends on if the size of the parents is normal or abnormal for their families. If most of the dogs in the family (parents, grandparents, their siblings, etc...) are around the same size, than looking at the size of the parents to be a good indicator of the size the pup will grow to be provides a good guesstimate, but is far from a sure thing. If the parent's relatives vary widely in size, the genetics for all sorts of different sizes exist in the bloodline, and thus likely exist in the parents themselves, and you really can't guess how big the pups will be.

lcht2 · 07-28-2008, 08:07 PM

i posted this in another thread but i figured it would get more attention in the area. i know that pups grow differently and at different paces. so here's my question, will a male pup be the same size as his sire or is it possible he could take on the traits (as far as size) of "grandparents?" the reason i ask this is because my boy is already taller than his sire at 8 months old, not by much, but tall enough that u can tell just by looking. also my boy came from the first litter between these two dogs (his sire and dam) so there are no other pups to compare him to.

Liesje · 07-28-2008, 10:17 PM

I don't know but my bitch is about 21" tall and the two of her sons I've met are 25" or more and look much more like the sire than like her.

lcht2 · 07-30-2008, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted By: LiesjeI don't know but my bitch is about 21" tall and the two of her sons I've met are 25" or more and look much more like the sire than like her.

the last i measure tyson he was 27" at the shoulders, he is just about 1"-2" taller than his sire. he has a lot of his dam's coloring but there really isnt much of a difference in the color of the sire and dam. i know his sire is around 95lbs and is rather fit so i think that if tyson were to be 100lbs (considering he is taller wich equals more weight) it would be reasonable although i would rather him not be that heavy but as long as he is healthy, all is good with me

PaulH · 08-09-2008, 07:38 PM

One of my dogs is 3 years old. During his first three months of vet visits, one vet mentioned he might be a dwarf. He ended up being a steady 67 pounds and around 62 cm at the withers. His father is about 1/3 larger. His mother was of normal female size within the standard. One of his littermates , a male, was consistently 10-15 pounds more at his vet visits. He may be the smallest dog in his litter, You never know.
Paul

**JKlatsky** · 08-09-2008, 09:19 PM

I think it has to depend on the consistency of the genetics in the line. Are the males in the line always large or did the sire just happen to be the freak big puppy in the litter? And there are throwbacks too. We all know people who don't particularly resemble their parents, and then you see a picture of another relative when they were younger and it's more clear.

My dog was huge as a puppy and we all thought he was going to be 90-100lbs, bigger than his Dad who was about 85lbs. He stopped growing one day and ended being just about the same size. At 17 months, he's about 78lbs. I figure when he finishes filling out, he'll be pretty close to Dad.

arycrest · 08-15-2008, 09:18 AM

Yukon and Too's parents had three litters. Sieka, their dam, was about 70-75 lbs, and Pancho, the sire, was 65 lbs dripping wet.

All the males in all three litters were big boys. Yukon was the largest at 30" at the shoulder, the other boys ran around 29". He had HD so I kept him light at 95 lbs, but a good weight for him was 115 lbs. All the brothers ran in that weight range. The girls were all petite. Too was about 62 lbs which was about the same size range as all the girls in the litters.

I'm not sure about the size of the grandparents.

07-28-2008, 10:35 AM	#1 (permalink)
lcht2 Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: NORTHERN INDIANA Posts: 1,557	Genetics of size for pups...Sire vs. Dam? i know that dogs that come from the same litter grow differently but will a male pup be the same size as his sire?? or is it possible he could take up some traits from "grandparents??" __________________ steve "ok, go get your crack head" tyson v. newbury- PSA PDC "h*ll on wheels" lucia v. logan haus - ruler of the world http://mintcityk9training.yolasite.com/

07-28-2008, 07:08 PM	#2 (permalink)
MaggieRoseLee The Agility Rocks! Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Bushkill, PA (The Poconos!) Posts: 22,215	Genetics of size for pups...Sire vs. Dam? You may want to move this to the breeder section. People who breed tend to keep track to their pups and would be able to help. I personally think it's a bit of a genetic crap shoot! If the male and female are smaller, the pups may TEND to be the same. But that doesn't mean for all the pups in the litter. Probably easier to tell on a repeat breeding also... __________________ MACH2 Bretta Lee Wildhaus CGC TC TQX Glory B Wildhaus NA, NJ, NF + LOL (still) "*Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde*

07-28-2008, 07:55 PM	#3 (permalink)
BlackGSD Crowned Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Eastern Washington Posts: 7,795	Re: Genetics of size for pups...Sire vs. Dam? I agree, it is a "crap shoot". I have seen puppies that grew to be larger than BOTH parents and I have seen them end up smaller than either parent. "Generally" you could expect them to be "about" the size of the parents. __________________ Tracy Siren vom Banach { Sable female GSD 3-20-08} R.I.P. Wrangler male ACD/Aussie mix. 9-29-99 to8-29-11.

07-28-2008, 08:05 PM	#4 (permalink)
Chris Wild Administrator & Alpha Bitch of the Wild Bunch Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 12,604	Re: Genetics of size for pups...Sire vs. Dam? No way to know for sure based just on the parents. Depends on if the size of the parents is normal or abnormal for their families. If most of the dogs in the family (parents, grandparents, their siblings, etc...) are around the same size, than looking at the size of the parents to be a good indicator of the size the pup will grow to be provides a good guesstimate, but is far from a sure thing. If the parent's relatives vary widely in size, the genetics for all sorts of different sizes exist in the bloodline, and thus likely exist in the parents themselves, and you really can't guess how big the pups will be. __________________ *Wildhaus Kennels* Kaiser ~ SchH3 CGC TDI (HOT) Raven ~ SchH3 AWD2 PD1 P1 PA T1 UCD URO2 CGC TT (B/HOT) Della ~ SchHA TR1 PD1 P1 PA T1 URO2 CGC TT (B/HOT) Wulf ~ SchH1 PD1 P1 T1 URO2 CGC TT (B/HOT) Heidi ~ BH CD UCD RN URO1 (B/HOT) Jazz ~ Superpup In Training

07-28-2008, 08:07 PM	#5 (permalink)
lcht2 Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: NORTHERN INDIANA Posts: 1,557	pups full size vs sire and dam i posted this in another thread but i figured it would get more attention in the area. i know that pups grow differently and at different paces. so here's my question, will a male pup be the same size as his sire or is it possible he could take on the traits (as far as size) of "grandparents?" the reason i ask this is because my boy is already taller than his sire at 8 months old, not by much, but tall enough that u can tell just by looking. also my boy came from the first litter between these two dogs (his sire and dam) so there are no other pups to compare him to. __________________ steve "ok, go get your crack head" tyson v. newbury- PSA PDC "h*ll on wheels" lucia v. logan haus - ruler of the world http://mintcityk9training.yolasite.com/

07-28-2008, 10:17 PM	#6 (permalink)
Liesje Crowned Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 12,970	Re: pups full size vs sire and dam I don't know but my bitch is about 21" tall and the two of her sons I've met are 25" or more and look much more like the sire than like her. __________________ UCH Alta-Tollhaus-Krieger Lamb Chop FO OB1 CL1R CL1F RA TT HIT TDI CGC VPC's Coca-Cola HIT CGC SG UCH Alta-Tollhaus Bono SchH1 AD T1 FO PA CL1R UNJ UCA HIT TT CGC OFA SG Pantalaimon vom Geistwasser BH AD HIT CGC

08-09-2008, 07:38 PM	#8 (permalink)
PaulH Master Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 503	Re: pups full size vs sire and dam One of my dogs is 3 years old. During his first three months of vet visits, one vet mentioned he might be a dwarf. He ended up being a steady 67 pounds and around 62 cm at the withers. His father is about 1/3 larger. His mother was of normal female size within the standard. One of his littermates , a male, was consistently 10-15 pounds more at his vet visits. He may be the smallest dog in his litter, You never know. Paul

08-09-2008, 09:19 PM	#9 (permalink)
JKlatsky Moderator Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Riverview, FL Posts: 2,985	Re: pups full size vs sire and dam I think it has to depend on the consistency of the genetics in the line. Are the males in the line always large or did the sire just happen to be the freak big puppy in the litter? And there are throwbacks too. We all know people who don't particularly resemble their parents, and then you see a picture of another relative when they were younger and it's more clear. My dog was huge as a puppy and we all thought he was going to be 90-100lbs, bigger than his Dad who was about 85lbs. He stopped growing one day and ended being just about the same size. At 17 months, he's about 78lbs. I figure when he finishes filling out, he'll be pretty close to Dad. __________________ Argos vom Eisernen Loewen VPG1, CGC, TC 3-3-07 Bianka vom Eisernen Loewen BH, CGC, TC 1-3-08 Cade vom Eisernen Loewen CGC 3-25-09 D'Artagnan (Tag) vom Eisernen Loewen 2-2-10 G Aiko von Burkndeiros SchH 3, IPO3, FH, TC, KKL2 9-17-02

08-15-2008, 09:18 AM	#10 (permalink)
arycrest Crowned Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Central Florida Posts: 8,092	Re: pups full size vs sire and dam Yukon and Too's parents had three litters. Sieka, their dam, was about 70-75 lbs, and Pancho, the sire, was 65 lbs dripping wet. All the males in all three litters were big boys. Yukon was the largest at 30" at the shoulder, the other boys ran around 29". He had HD so I kept him light at 95 lbs, but a good weight for him was 115 lbs. All the brothers ran in that weight range. The girls were all petite. Too was about 62 lbs which was about the same size range as all the girls in the litters. I'm not sure about the size of the grandparents. __________________ Gayle & the Hooligans Mac, Slider, Bruiser, & Faith MY BRIDGE KIDS: Andy, Abbey, Tasha, Tex, Echo, Yukon, JR, Too, Niki, Bo, Ringer, Kelly, & Honey The Hooligans Photo Albums!

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