Color questions

Liesje · 01-22-2008, 06:22 PM

Is this a sable German show line? (same dog both pics)

How about this one?

Is this dog a sable or a black and tan/red? (same dog both pics)

Sometimes it's hard for me to tell! I'm trying to learn exactly what is what.

DancingCavy · 01-22-2008, 06:28 PM

First one I can't tell. He looks more like a black/red than sable. I bet if you found his sire and dam you'd know for sure.

This guy:

is definately sable.

DancingCavy · 01-22-2008, 06:30 PM

Well, the first guy's sire is Timo:

who is definately a sable. So I guess checking parentage isn't helpful at all in this case! Unless, of course, Timo is homozygous for sable. Then all his offspring would be sable too. Which they're not. So. . .I still don't know without pulling a hair from that first dog's coat.

EastGSD · 01-22-2008, 06:36 PM

Yes, sable show line with either more intensity than his sire OR a photog that increased the contrast on the photo

Here is his sire
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/20964.html

Here is the showline male's ped
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/...ee/133576.html

The first dog appears to almost have a blanket back pattern.....some sables will even have a saddle pattern like this American Select Alvin
http://blcardis.com/joelle/alvin.asp

Cherri

DianaM · 01-22-2008, 07:05 PM

http://www.margman.ee/?id=3&keel=ee
Headshot of Margman Torsten, the first dog posted. Looks sable to me. I love to see showline sables! And this guy is just gorgeous. What a face.

The dog doing the B&H and the retrieve over A-Frame is a toughie. Looks like a very nice black and tan but I'm probably wrong on that.

DianaM · 01-22-2008, 09:31 PM

Kindasorta OT, but man, Torsten's a beauty and a half! Check out some of his progeny:
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/...ee/472198.html
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/...ee/420619.html
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/...ee/448615.html (VERY dark face)
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/...ee/420618.html
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/...ee/495569.html
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/...ee/495558.html

I guess there's no question now, Torsten's a sable. And man, does he ever reproduce color/pigment well. All of you know I'm not a showline fan, but this guy's got me regardless.

DancingCavy · 01-23-2008, 10:20 AM

Looking at his headshot, I'd definately agree Torsten's a sable. Why didn't I think to look for more photos of him?

Eh well.

Calipso · 01-24-2008, 11:24 PM

Maybe someone could clue me in on what the difference is between mixed black coat versus a sable? I was thinking sables were mostly black.

My puppy is black on top with a black/off-white underbelly and cream/tan face markings and legs.

tracyc · 01-24-2008, 11:29 PM

You're describing classic black & tan saddle markings.

Sable is two different pigment colors on the same hair shaft--light at one end of the hair and dark at the other.

There are both light and dark sable dogs.

Calipso · 01-24-2008, 11:43 PM

Well I'll be. I never knew it was possible to have a single hair shaft with two colors on it. That's weird.

01-22-2008, 06:22 PM	#1 (permalink)
Liesje Crowned Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 12,970	Color questions Is this a sable German show line? (same dog both pics) How about this one? Is this dog a sable or a black and tan/red? (same dog both pics) Sometimes it's hard for me to tell! I'm trying to learn exactly what is what. __________________ UCH Alta-Tollhaus-Krieger Lamb Chop FO OB1 CL1R CL1F RA TT HIT TDI CGC VPC's Coca-Cola HIT CGC SG UCH Alta-Tollhaus Bono SchH1 AD T1 FO PA CL1R UNJ UCA HIT TT CGC OFA SG Pantalaimon vom Geistwasser BH AD HIT CGC

01-22-2008, 06:28 PM	#2 (permalink)
DancingCavy Crowned Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Syracuse, NY Posts: 9,655	Re: Color questions First one I can't tell. He looks more like a black/red than sable. I bet if you found his sire and dam you'd know for sure. This guy: is definately sable. __________________ ~Jamie~ Risa W-FDX/MF RN CGC WCM It Just Keeps Getting Better (Risa's Blog)

01-22-2008, 06:30 PM	#3 (permalink)
DancingCavy Crowned Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Syracuse, NY Posts: 9,655	Re: Color questions Well, the first guy's sire is Timo: who is definately a sable. So I guess checking parentage isn't helpful at all in this case! Unless, of course, Timo is homozygous for sable. Then all his offspring would be sable too. Which they're not. So. . .I still don't know without pulling a hair from that first dog's coat. __________________ ~Jamie~ Risa W-FDX/MF RN CGC WCM It Just Keeps Getting Better (Risa's Blog)

01-22-2008, 06:36 PM	#4 (permalink)
EastGSD Crowned Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: NJ Posts: 3,701	Re: Color questions Yes, sable show line with either more intensity than his sire OR a photog that increased the contrast on the photo Here is his sire http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/20964.html Here is the showline male's ped http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/...ee/133576.html The first dog appears to almost have a blanket back pattern.....some sables will even have a saddle pattern like this American Select Alvin http://blcardis.com/joelle/alvin.asp Cherri __________________ owned by: GSDs Emma and her GerMercian kid Tobe And Doxies' Abby and Charlie my Service dude and Stan and Castor the parrots

01-22-2008, 07:05 PM	#5 (permalink)
DianaM Crowned Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 10,098	Re: Color questions http://www.margman.ee/?id=3&keel=ee Headshot of Margman Torsten, the first dog posted. Looks sable to me. I love to see showline sables! And this guy is just gorgeous. What a face. The dog doing the B&H and the retrieve over A-Frame is a toughie. Looks like a very nice black and tan but I'm probably wrong on that. __________________ Renji - 6 y/o M GSD x chow rescue Training @ The Canine Center - St Cloud, FL "German shepherd dog breeding is working dog breeding or it is not German shepherd dog breeding." -v. Stephanitz

01-22-2008, 09:31 PM	#6 (permalink)
DianaM Crowned Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 10,098	Re: Color questions Kindasorta OT, but man, Torsten's a beauty and a half! Check out some of his progeny: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/...ee/472198.html http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/...ee/420619.html http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/...ee/448615.html (VERY dark face) http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/...ee/420618.html http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/...ee/495569.html http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/...ee/495558.html I guess there's no question now, Torsten's a sable. And man, does he ever reproduce color/pigment well. All of you know I'm not a showline fan, but this guy's got me regardless. __________________ Renji - 6 y/o M GSD x chow rescue Training @ The Canine Center - St Cloud, FL "German shepherd dog breeding is working dog breeding or it is not German shepherd dog breeding." -v. Stephanitz

01-23-2008, 10:20 AM	#7 (permalink)
DancingCavy Crowned Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Syracuse, NY Posts: 9,655	Re: Color questions Looking at his headshot, I'd definately agree Torsten's a sable. Why didn't I think to look for more photos of him? Eh well. __________________ ~Jamie~ Risa W-FDX/MF RN CGC WCM It Just Keeps Getting Better (Risa's Blog)

01-24-2008, 11:24 PM	#8 (permalink)
Calipso Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 111	Re: Color questions Maybe someone could clue me in on what the difference is between mixed black coat versus a sable? I was thinking sables were mostly black. My puppy is black on top with a black/off-white underbelly and cream/tan face markings and legs.

01-24-2008, 11:29 PM	#9 (permalink)
tracyc Crowned Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: St. Louis Posts: 5,393	Re: Color questions You're describing classic black & tan saddle markings. Sable is two different pigment colors on the same hair shaft--light at one end of the hair and dark at the other. There are both light and dark sable dogs. __________________ Tracy St. Louis, MO http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18...shepherd_4.gif Luca says, "Arf!"

01-24-2008, 11:43 PM	#10 (permalink)
Calipso Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 111	Re: Color questions Well I'll be. I never knew it was possible to have a single hair shaft with two colors on it. That's weird.

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