Genetics and WGSL colors - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 04:45 PM Thread Starter
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Genetics and WGSL colors

If a WGSL from known German showlines produces a black puppy from a recessive gene from a WL or other line way back in the pedigree, is the dog considered to be a WGSL or part WL or ASL, depending on where the black gene came from? Do WGSL ever produce solid black dogs? If so, why don't we ever see them?
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post #2 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 06:04 PM
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A dog who has been bred for generations for the black and deep brown color and structure to compete in the conformation ring, it is WGSL even if it might carry the black recessive. Generally dogs that carry the black recessive also have a more extended saddle or blanket pattern. Even if a WL was used at some point back a number of generations ago, but then bred back to WGSL for many generations, it is still a WGSL. Friend of mine has a WGSL female that does carry the Lierbergs (Bodo, Bernd and Fin) and also Marko Cellerland (show line that is found more in working lines). It isn't uncommon to find some old show lines like Canto Wienerau and Quanto Wienerau is WL either, but it doesn't make them show lines.

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post #3 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 06:08 PM
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It would be pretty darn uncommon for a dog from many generations of WGSL to produce a black. Some of the old Kirschental dogs had WL in them and it might be possible for a dog going back on those dogs to carry the black recessive for generations and then be bred to another to produce black, but I have never seen one. The extended saddle and blanket patterned dogs aren't favored in the show ring so wouldn't be bred for by people interested in doing well in that venue.
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post #4 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 06:34 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you. I looked up Canto and he looked Black and Tan with a saddle.

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post #5 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 08:45 PM
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Yes. I was just using him in a WL pedigrees as an example not making a WL a show line.

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post #6 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 08:56 PM
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Thank you. I looked up Canto and he looked Black and Tan with a saddle.

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Canto was known for producing washed out colour .

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post #7 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 10:05 PM Thread Starter
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Canto was known for producing washed out colour .
Why was he used so often?
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post #8 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-20-2017, 02:55 AM
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lol -- why indeed .

see Iceberg Breeders
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post #9 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-20-2017, 06:30 AM
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Lisa, lol, explain to me why Marko was SL and Bernd and Bodo were not?
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post #10 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-20-2017, 06:40 AM
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Actually, you know I don't believe in line designation, but I definitely consider Bernd/Bodo and Marko examples of the epitome of the breed. Excellent structure, excellent temperament, producers of excellent working traits, and capable of producing all major pigments when bred to receptive mates. They represent the standard in every aspect( to include pigment types produced) and SHOULD be a starting point for any serious breeder that cares about the complete dog. Jmho
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