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-   -   Deciding breed worthiness based on hip scores (http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/genetic-issues/376177-deciding-breed-worthiness-based-hip-scores.html)

gsdsar 12-04-2013 07:01 PM

Deciding breed worthiness based on hip scores
 
So I have a question, for breeders and buyers. Would you breed/buy a dog with OFA Fair hips? Or "fast normal" hips?

If so, what other considerations do you take into account? If said dog had OFA fair hips, littermates all got an OFA number and pedigree was stocked with passing hips, does that affect your decision?

On the flip side, if a dog has " excellent " hips, but the pedigree is littered with hip issues, do you take that into consideration? Breeders, how diligently do you look at siblings, parents, aunts, uncles, when considering a dog/bitch for breeding?

As a buyer, does an OFA Fair, scare you off? Even though it means the hips are normal? Is it the word "fair"?

In a few months my boy will be getting his prelims done. My last male OFA fair. Never took a wrong step, never had arthritis. He had perfectly functional hips, was a working SAR dog. But the "fair" was off putting to me. I never bred him, he was neutered(for reasons not related to his hips).

Just curious how others feel about less than " excellent" ratings. Same goes for the German "fast-normal", which to me equates to an OFA fair.







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Harry and Lola 12-04-2013 07:06 PM

As a buyer I have always asked to see the pedigree of dam and sire. Having said this, Lola's dam and sire had excellent, however there were some highish scores on the sire's side further down the line.

Lola has HD - whether this was caused genetically or environmentally or both, I can't say.

Yes I always look at hip scores, does this guarantee excellent hips - NO.

JakodaCD OA 12-04-2013 07:14 PM

As a buyer, hips that rate "fair" don't bother me if everything else is what I like / what I want. Sure you take a chance, but you take a chance with any hip rating in my opinion. Fair is still passing/not dysplastic

I should add, I've had a couple of gsd's with Fair hips, and they never had any hip issues, were active dogs living until 13 years of age

Masi, was rated a 'good'.

wolfstraum 12-04-2013 08:00 PM

Fair is passing. Not perfect, but NOT HD. Fast normal does not bother me....many dogs going FN at a year do better at 2, not all, but many. I look at the whole pedigree for breeding/buying...and if info on littermates is available, even better! The ZW system is not perfect - especially with non German born dogs...the numbers are skewed....Csabre has OFA Good hips, has produced 1 Fair, 2 Goods, 2 prelim Goods/'a' normals...her mother was OFA Good, produced 1 litter and 2 OFA Goods, 2 others prelim Goods....and got a highish number (90) - and her daughter Kira, 'a' normal/OFA Good prelim is 82 (sire is 83 and dam 90?????) ...the others aren't showing up yet that I have sent in.... Basha is 96, "B" hips in Belgium, and one daughter, Hexe is 81...yet Basha produced 2 OFA Excellents, 6 or 8 Goods, 1 Fair and 1 Mild .....


Passing is passing and you HAVE to look further than that rating!

Lee

lhczth 12-04-2013 08:32 PM

You have to look at not only the dog, but the dog's littermates, full siblings, parents, grandparents, etc. An excellent out of a litter of dysplastic dogs is much more of a risk than a fair, FN or even a NZ out of a litter of all good/excellent and normals whose depth of pedigree also shows good ratings.

We tend to panic so much about hips, but rarely talk that much about elbows. A dog with severe hips probably won't have much of a working life, but often has a long companion life. Severe or grade 3 (is that OFA's worst?) elbows are very often a death sentence.

marbury 12-04-2013 09:16 PM

I chose not to use a male I was given in a breeding capacity because of bad hips through parentage. Sire and two of his brothers had HD mild to moderate OFA prelims before age of 2. Even if I got OFA Excellent on my male I would not breed him. I want to see a pedigree of passing hips and I want to know about all the littermates I can track down.

Merciel 12-05-2013 03:13 PM

Fair doesn't bother me, especially if the relatives are mostly Good/Excellent or, at least, also Fair.

Other things would weigh a lot more heavily in my decision to buy (or theoretically breed) a dog. To me, Fair = a passing rating, and that's sufficient.

brembo 12-05-2013 03:29 PM

How strongly does the breeding of two "excellent" hipped dogs correlate to offspring? Direct ratio(as in genetic traits for coat type) or is more a nebulous "odds are" situation?

This is a hard question to parse. I guess I am asking if hips have a genetic marker or not. Would a pairing with pedigrees that stretch back for 10 generations with perfect hips have a better chance or almost guaranteed outcome of great hips?

elisabeth_00117 12-05-2013 03:42 PM

As a buyer, I would want to see the whole picture... so I would dive into the pedigree and really ensure I had a knowledge of what other relatives were rated AND producing. For me, I want to see the whole picture and although hips are of course important, Fair is still a pass so it wouldn't deter me from purchasing but it would make me take a better look at the whole picture of the dog being bred and the relatives of said dog.

David Taggart 12-05-2013 03:58 PM

I was scared of HD. I bought Lucy from Austria, she is EGSD - the only line vertually HD free. Home
Western line dogs have more "fire" in them, they are more playful. Eastern ones are bigger, more muscular, and they are rather calm dogs in comparison.


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