Is sable really the dominant?

VaBeachFamily · 01-18-2013, 11:17 PM

Discussing this with a friend.
Sable female whose parents were ... Dad sable, Mom black and red. Only one other sable in 7 generation. All of the rest were solid black and black/tan saddleback
Black and red/tan male, nothing BUT black and red/tan dogs in 12 generations.

Is is correct that these two would most likely produce more sables than black and red/tan? Hearing that the best you could expect is 50/50, but that it should be expected to have 70-100% sable. Is this correct? I tried reading the in depth, and got lost, so I am asking in laymans terms!

VaBeachFamily · 01-18-2013, 11:18 PM

And... even more odd, one of her males is all black, with only one all black about 5 generations back, rest are black and tan... I thought it was a bit different than that, but I guess I midunderstand it all! Any expertise is going to fuel for our next conversation

And... no jokes about the fact that this is the type of thing we talk about over our morning coffee

**Liesje** · 01-19-2013, 12:01 AM

How can there only be one other sable in 7 generations? Don't you need a sable to get a sable?

Zahnburg · 01-19-2013, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liesje

How can there only be one other sable in 7 generations? Don't you need a sable to get a sable?

Of course. The situation the OP describes can not be accurate.

carmspack · 01-19-2013, 01:04 AM

post a pedigree.

That sable sire , each and every generation , needs to have one sable parent -- directly . That is what dominant gene means.

More than likely the sire is a faded colour , lot of bitch striping .

If you had pictures that would help. But in order to be a sable one parent needs to be , generated from a pairing with a sable , generated from a grand parent with at least one sable --- sable does not go into hiding . That would make it a recessive gene, which it is not.

carmspack · 01-19-2013, 01:26 AM

then what needs to happen is that Daddy sable needs to be DNA'd and that should prove that Daddy's pedigree is wrong . He can not come from two parents that are black and red . What ever kennel he came from must have a sable on property that snuck in for a tryst with the female and planted his sable seed !!

robk · 01-19-2013, 07:13 AM

Yep, I was also thinking about an incorrect (or fake) pedigree.

wolfstraum · 01-19-2013, 07:37 AM

Another possibility is that a pattern sable was incorrectly registered as a black and brown (tan or red).....I know a dog that from photos you would swear is black and tan but he is a sable....when sellers hand off an AKC app to a buyer, it is easy enough for someone (esp a novice or pet owner) to have made an error on a pattern dog ....

Lee

Piper'sgrl · 01-19-2013, 08:28 AM

You need atleast one parent whos a sable to produce a pattern sable.

robk · 01-19-2013, 08:44 AM

started a new thread regarding sable puppy picture
Mod Mary

01-18-2013, 11:17 PM	#1 (permalink)
VaBeachFamily Elite Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,384	Is sable really the dominant? Discussing this with a friend. Sable female whose parents were ... Dad sable, Mom black and red. Only one other sable in 7 generation. All of the rest were solid black and black/tan saddleback Black and red/tan male, nothing BUT black and red/tan dogs in 12 generations. Is is correct that these two would most likely produce more sables than black and red/tan? Hearing that the best you could expect is 50/50, but that it should be expected to have 70-100% sable. Is this correct? I tried reading the in depth, and got lost, so I am asking in laymans terms!

01-19-2013, 12:01 AM	#3 (permalink)
Liesje Moderator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 16,258	How can there only be one other sable in 7 generations? Don't you need a sable to get a sable? __________________ Liesje & the K9s Nikon (GSD) U-CH SG Alta-Tollhaus Bono SchH1 KKL T1 FO PA TF-III FDCh-S CL1-R UJJ U-CA HIT TT CGC Coke (All-American) VPC's Coca-Cola CGC, couch warmer extraordinaire Indy (All-American) Blue Horizon's Indigo Girl, flyball star in training Rainbow Bridge Kenya (GSD) U-CH Alta-Tollhaus-Krieger Lamb Chop CL1-R CL1-F RA HIT TDI TT CGC vom Blauen Horizont / Blue Horizon GSDs

01-19-2013, 01:04 AM	#5 (permalink)
carmspack Crowned Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: ontario - Posts: 5,543	post a pedigree. That sable sire , each and every generation , needs to have one sable parent -- directly . That is what dominant gene means. More than likely the sire is a faded colour , lot of bitch striping . If you had pictures that would help. But in order to be a sable one parent needs to be , generated from a pairing with a sable , generated from a grand parent with at least one sable --- sable does not go into hiding . That would make it a recessive gene, which it is not. __________________ Carmen ******** Carmspack**

01-19-2013, 01:26 AM	#6 (permalink)
carmspack Crowned Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: ontario - Posts: 5,543	then what needs to happen is that Daddy sable needs to be DNA'd and that should prove that Daddy's pedigree is wrong . He can not come from two parents that are black and red . What ever kennel he came from must have a sable on property that snuck in for a tryst with the female and planted his sable seed !! __________________ Carmen ******** Carmspack** Last edited by gagsd; 01-19-2013 at 09:57 AM. Reason: started a new thread regarding sable puppy picture

01-19-2013, 07:13 AM	#7 (permalink)
robk Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Fayetteville, NC Posts: 1,535	Yep, I was also thinking about an incorrect (or fake) pedigree. __________________ Honor Von Kaltwasser BH aka "Ruger" http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs-detai...von-Kaltwasser

01-18-2013, 11:18 PM	#2 (permalink)
VaBeachFamily Elite Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,384	And... even more odd, one of her males is all black, with only one all black about 5 generations back, rest are black and tan... I thought it was a bit different than that, but I guess I midunderstand it all! Any expertise is going to fuel for our next conversation And... no jokes about the fact that this is the type of thing we talk about over our morning coffee

01-19-2013, 07:37 AM	#8 (permalink)
wolfstraum Crowned Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: PA Posts: 8,211	Another possibility is that a pattern sable was incorrectly registered as a black and brown (tan or red).....I know a dog that from photos you would swear is black and tan but he is a sable....when sellers hand off an AKC app to a buyer, it is easy enough for someone (esp a novice or pet owner) to have made an error on a pattern dog .... Lee __________________ Csabre Sch1, Hexe Sch2, Bengal, Komet, Kyra, Kira & Kougar v Wolfstraum ~ - Danger Sch1 SAR - ATB~ Kougar Sch3, Kyra Sch3, Cito Sch2, Alice Sch1, Kelsey CD, Ret ~ Basha Sch3, Fenja Sch3 wolfstraum.net

01-19-2013, 08:28 AM	#9 (permalink)
Piper'sgrl Master Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Innerkip, Ontario Posts: 613	You need atleast one parent whos a sable to produce a pattern sable. __________________ Piper ~01/16/2012 Last edited by gagsd; 01-19-2013 at 09:58 AM. Reason: started a new thread regarding sable puppy picture

01-19-2013, 08:44 AM	#10 (permalink)
robk Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Fayetteville, NC Posts: 1,535	started a new thread regarding sable puppy picture Mod Mary __________________ Honor Von Kaltwasser BH aka "Ruger" http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs-detai...von-Kaltwasser Last edited by gagsd; 01-19-2013 at 09:59 AM. Reason: started a new thread regarding sable puppy picture

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