Not really an "issue" but a question about genetics?

[cliffson1]

Another thing, breeding for extremes in all things is detrimental to this breed. Take the OP's question on white German Shepherds and longhairs.......both have always been part of the breed but were never considered the "face" of the breed. There have always been a small number of breeders that still bred for these type dogs (albeit at times both have been outside the standard), partially because there has always been a desire and market for them. I would never breed for either, though I fully accept them as part of the breed. Very similar to the black and red color today. The breed color pattern has historically been Black and Tan. Many years ago, the black and red dog was the occasional pup in a litter, probably less frequent than LC. Look at the situation today....this happened by breeding for color! I think this is no more beneficial to the breed than doing it for white or longhair or blue, even though it may be accepted standard wise. The point is this breed pays a price when bred for cosmetic purposes like color or specific coat length....jmo!

[qbchottu]

Funny that you bring up the trend for black and red. That's certainly the "in" thing and many judges place great importance on it. Now compare that to the recent hoopla over DDR dogs and black sables. That's the latest fad - everyone wants a "DDR black sable" and I see breeders catering to this trend. Will be interesting to see how this develops - no line in the GSD is immune so there is no reason to feel elevated about one lineage over another. It is up to the breeder's discretion as to WHY they are breeding...wish more took long term goals and implications into consideration, but as long as the money is good and the public demands it, "breeders" will always breed for color and singular goals over the total package.

[Catu]

And that includes the black sable too. As much as I LOVE that color, I'd be very, very careful if buying a pup from parents of that color that the breeding is really for temperament and working ability and not because it is into fashion and the market ask for it.

ETA: qbchottu, you won me, I wrote before reading your post

[qbchottu]

hehehe....what do they say Catu? Great minds...

I think it is hilarious to see "working breeders" bragging about their color breedings while admonishing those terrible showlines () when the irony of the situation is that these "DDR black sable" litters are paired for purely cosmetic and color goals! If that isn't the pot calling the kettle black, I don't know what is!

I am reminded of one or two "reputable" working breeders that are repeatedly recommended here and other places. They have hardly any working/show titles on the dogs, bitches are imported with titles, "breeder" doesn't work the dogs, litters are produced based on color, and fluff health tests are used to add credibility to the breeding program. It's not working or show that is the problem - it is the ultimate goal and purpose of one's breeding program. The ability to truly SEE the dog for what it is and knowing when to washout. There are those that do it right and those that cut corners. Unfortunately to the public, there is little difference between the breeder that "gets" it and those that breed for the latest trend/profits.

[jocoyn]

I must admit I was told by someone that I did not have a "real" sable because he is a patterned sable (Czech x WGWL)-Go figure -Now I did not want a longcoat living in SC and in briars and water a lot, but other than that who should care - they are all beautiful IMO.

[cliffson1]

I fully agree that breeding for black sable is just as faulty as breeding for black and red. Here's where you have to be careful.....many black sable come from a parent that isn't black sable.....they could have a parent that is bi-color or all black, or grey sable to arrive at that particular pup being black sable. That is very different then say 5 or 6 generations of just black sable of both parents or black and red of both parents in producing a color.
But the irony is people can learn that this is not a good breeding practice and STILL continue to do it and so called knowledgable people will point them out as reputable....go figure. Black sable, all Black, Bl and Rd, all White, makes no difference exclusive breeding for cosmetic purposes will not strengthen the breed.

[onyx'girl]

Also breeding for that big blocky head that is the flavor of the month.....

[martemchik]

Originally Posted by onyx'girl

Also breeding for that big blocky head that is the flavor of the month.....

I thought the flat "collie" nose was all the rage in the AKC ring right now?

And yes...sad to say that working lines are quite the fad right now with everyone trying to turn their back on the AKC show ring standard of the saddle back black and tan. People go on forums like this, do some research, get pushed towards working lines by 99 out of 100 people on here due to their "better" temperaments and then they go out and find a BYB breeding beautiful dark sables...we have more than a few sable puppies at my club right now that have some pretty interesting temperament issues for 4 month old dogs.

And yes...that is a darker sable in my profile picture lol.

[jocoyn]

Yes people want a working line dog dba "couch potato" then complain when they have a demon on their hands.

[Catu]

Originally Posted by jocoyn

Yes people want a working line dog dba "couch potato" then complain when they have a demon on their hands.

I used to defend working lines with swords when people claimed they can't be appropriate pets, but with time I'm becoming more snobby. "Ohhh,yes! If you want to have one you better give him a work to do or it will destroy your house (which is not entirely false, but it goes with most GSDs and basically with most pups and younger dogs). The few, the better.