Is Pano Genetic? - Page 3 - German Shepherd Dog Forums

Increase font size: 0, 10, 25, 50%

GermanShepherds.com is the premier German Shepherd Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-11-2012, 03:46 PM   #21 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
onyx'girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SW, MI
Posts: 24,547
Default

That really doesn't tell me much....other than paying a $150 consult fee for an analysis? I'd like to know what exactly Elaine fed her pup to avoid Pano. But if she doesn't want to share I understand.
__________________
Jane~
Kept by Onyx, Kacie and Karlo
onyx'girl is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-11-2012, 03:48 PM   #22 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
jaggirl47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Washington
Posts: 3,516
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by onyx'girl View Post
That really doesn't tell me much....other than paying a $150 consult fee for an analysis? I'd like to know what exactly Elaine fed her pup to avoid Pano. But if she doesn't want to share I understand.
For puppies it is $375 for email consultations for a diet. Adults are $150.
__________________
SBD Posejpal's Leyna, HCTs 6/16/2010
SBD Posejpal's Hades, 5/9/12

At the rainbow bridge:
Zappa 12/27/00-1/23/12 You are my heart, my soul, and my best friend. You will be with me always.
Zeus 5/9/12-8/13/12 You taught me strength. Run free.
jaggirl47 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-11-2012, 03:57 PM   #23 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 18,799
Default

This is purely anecdotal but my dogs that never had pano were both kibble fed (one primarily California Natural and the other Cal Nat and Fromm Gold) from weaning on and were not supplemented (other than occasional table scraps and raw meat, but nothing regular enough to be considered a regular diet/supplement). One is OFA Good and the other is SV-A1 Normal (probably OFA Good or Fair); both have normal elbows. Both were and still are pretty normal sized male dogs (70-75bs), both intact. Both have always been kept lean. One is all WGSL and one is all WL so absolutely no common ancestry within many generations. One was very slow to physically mature (age 3.5-4 years) the other not as slow but still probably on the slow slide (and him mentally as well). Neither have ever been "loose" movers, neither went through that gangly puppy stage or ever had wobbly hocks, downed pasterns, or any sort of "floppy" movement.

Not sure if that helps. I wouldn't even be sure what pano looks like, I don't know that I've ever seen it in my dogs or my foster puppies or my close friends' dogs but it sounds pretty painful for a young, energetic puppy
__________________
Coke (All-American 7/7/06)
Nikon (GSD 9/7/08)
Indy (All-American 5/10/12)
Legend (GSD 10/22/13)
Rainbow Bridge Kenya (GSD)

Liesje is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-11-2012, 04:01 PM   #24 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
jaggirl47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Washington
Posts: 3,516
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liesje View Post
This is purely anecdotal but my dogs that never had pano were both kibble fed (one primarily California Natural and the other Cal Nat and Fromm Gold) from weaning on and were not supplemented (other than occasional table scraps and raw meat, but nothing regular enough to be considered a regular diet/supplement).
This is pretty much the same way I feed both of mine. Leyna was very slow growing but I believe she has reached her full size. Hades is growing like a weed but I have seen zero problems from him. Both of mine are fed Orijen.

Leyna has a full sibling a year older that suffered from pano. I talk to the owner and am friends with her. So, if diet is the be all end all, then I can just as easily say that Orijen is the reason Leyna did not get pano. However, my thoughts are that it is genetic but the quality you feed plays a role on if the dog has symptoms or not.
__________________
SBD Posejpal's Leyna, HCTs 6/16/2010
SBD Posejpal's Hades, 5/9/12

At the rainbow bridge:
Zappa 12/27/00-1/23/12 You are my heart, my soul, and my best friend. You will be with me always.
Zeus 5/9/12-8/13/12 You taught me strength. Run free.
jaggirl47 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-11-2012, 04:06 PM   #25 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
onyx'girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SW, MI
Posts: 24,547
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liesje View Post
.
I wouldn't even be sure what pano looks like, I don't know that I've ever seen it in my dogs or my foster puppies or my close friends' dogs but it sounds pretty painful for a young, energetic puppy
For Onyx it was a limp with some whining. It shifted legs with different bouts. The front legs were the most painful for her, she was a bit lethargic when she had it in front. She was on Nutro large breed pup for her first 5 months(right before the recalls began)Then I put her on TWO as I transitioned to raw.

Karlo showed only a slight limp/rear leg(my trainer noticed the first bout and it went away within a week each time)

Pano has nothing to do with hips/elbow ratings.

I think some dogs are more stoic too, so will just carry on even if they feel some pain.

It isn't IMO a big deal, just part of puppyhood.
__________________
Jane~
Kept by Onyx, Kacie and Karlo

Last edited by onyx'girl; 11-11-2012 at 04:08 PM.
onyx'girl is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-11-2012, 04:32 PM   #26 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 4,832
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by onyx'girl View Post
That really doesn't tell me much....other than paying a $150 consult fee for an analysis? I'd like to know what exactly Elaine fed her pup to avoid Pano. But if she doesn't want to share I understand.
My pups were fed to NRC requirements which has to do with actual nutrition and not randomly throwing food at them without any idea of the nutrient profile like most raw diets do.

You feed your pup the actual nutrition for his size and age, and then add calories as needed. The diet is adjusted in the beginning with every three pounds gained or if he needs more or less calories. As the pup gets older, it is adjusted every five pounds.

This way the pup is fed only the level of nutrition he specifically needs for his size, age, and energy level; not more or less.

This does require weighing the pup and guaging his body condition at least weekly, and weighing every single ingredient in his meal every single day.
__________________
Elaine and the herd
Elaine is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-11-2012, 04:37 PM   #27 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
Dainerra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: N. Central Arkansas
Posts: 5,650
Send a message via Yahoo to Dainerra
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaggirl47 View Post
Is it that diet lessens the impact though? I don't think it would change the fact that the dog will get it, but I think what you feed can minimize the overall effects of it.
I think, in most cases, diet can CAUSE pano in that over-feeding can make a dog grow too fast.

On the other hand, feeding a smaller amount/lower protein/however you accomplish it, you can slow down the growth rate - no matter what genetic disposition is there. In some cases that might mean a very mild case, in others, no symptoms at all.

Of course, it's kind of hard to prove a negative lol
Dainerra is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-11-2012, 04:38 PM   #28 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
onyx'girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SW, MI
Posts: 24,547
Default

Did you feed veggies/fruits/ and supplements? Were these commercial prepared type foods from Monica's suggestions, or was everything from scratch? You don't have to be real specific, I just want to know vaguely what you fed.
__________________
Jane~
Kept by Onyx, Kacie and Karlo
onyx'girl is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-11-2012, 04:41 PM   #29 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
jaggirl47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Washington
Posts: 3,516
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dainerra View Post
I think, in most cases, diet can CAUSE pano in that over-feeding can make a dog grow too fast.

On the other hand, feeding a smaller amount/lower protein/however you accomplish it, you can slow down the growth rate - no matter what genetic disposition is there. In some cases that might mean a very mild case, in others, no symptoms at all.

Of course, it's kind of hard to prove a negative lol

Then if lower protein were the key, both of my dogs would have pano. They are both fed food that is 38% protein compaired to many others that are 24ish%. I have seen more pano in dogs on lower protein diets than on Orijen.
__________________
SBD Posejpal's Leyna, HCTs 6/16/2010
SBD Posejpal's Hades, 5/9/12

At the rainbow bridge:
Zappa 12/27/00-1/23/12 You are my heart, my soul, and my best friend. You will be with me always.
Zeus 5/9/12-8/13/12 You taught me strength. Run free.
jaggirl47 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-11-2012, 04:45 PM   #30 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
Dainerra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: N. Central Arkansas
Posts: 5,650
Send a message via Yahoo to Dainerra
Default

kind of my point. every dog is different. it might not be specifically protein - otherwise all raw fed dogs would get it!

kibble especially has a lot of additives and carbs and sugars. both can contribute to rapid growth as well.

Also, again there is probably some level of genetic component. Most likely a combination of factors. Kind of like two brothers - one can eat McDonald's 5 days a week and fatty foods and is healthy vs the second who eats "right" but has heart disease
Dainerra is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:14 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
PetGuide.com
Basset Hound Forum Doberman Forum Golden Retriever Forum Beagle Forum
Boxer Forum Dog Forum Pit Bull Forum Poodle Forum
Bulldog Forum Fish Forum Havanese Forum Maltese Forum
Cat Forum German Shepherd Forum Labradoodle Forum Yorkie Forum Hedgehog Forum
Chihuahua Forum Retriever Breeds Cichlid Forum Dart Frog Forum Mice Breeder Forum