Is Pano Genetic?

[onyx'girl]

That really doesn't tell me much....other than paying a $150 consult fee for an analysis? I'd like to know what exactly Elaine fed her pup to avoid Pano. But if she doesn't want to share I understand.

[jaggirl47]

Originally Posted by onyx'girl

That really doesn't tell me much....other than paying a $150 consult fee for an analysis? I'd like to know what exactly Elaine fed her pup to avoid Pano. But if she doesn't want to share I understand.

For puppies it is $375 for email consultations for a diet. Adults are $150.

[Liesje]

This is purely anecdotal but my dogs that never had pano were both kibble fed (one primarily California Natural and the other Cal Nat and Fromm Gold) from weaning on and were not supplemented (other than occasional table scraps and raw meat, but nothing regular enough to be considered a regular diet/supplement). One is OFA Good and the other is SV-A1 Normal (probably OFA Good or Fair); both have normal elbows. Both were and still are pretty normal sized male dogs (70-75bs), both intact. Both have always been kept lean. One is all WGSL and one is all WL so absolutely no common ancestry within many generations. One was very slow to physically mature (age 3.5-4 years) the other not as slow but still probably on the slow slide (and him mentally as well). Neither have ever been "loose" movers, neither went through that gangly puppy stage or ever had wobbly hocks, downed pasterns, or any sort of "floppy" movement.

Not sure if that helps. I wouldn't even be sure what pano looks like, I don't know that I've ever seen it in my dogs or my foster puppies or my close friends' dogs but it sounds pretty painful for a young, energetic puppy

[jaggirl47]

Originally Posted by Liesje

This is purely anecdotal but my dogs that never had pano were both kibble fed (one primarily California Natural and the other Cal Nat and Fromm Gold) from weaning on and were not supplemented (other than occasional table scraps and raw meat, but nothing regular enough to be considered a regular diet/supplement).

This is pretty much the same way I feed both of mine. Leyna was very slow growing but I believe she has reached her full size. Hades is growing like a weed but I have seen zero problems from him. Both of mine are fed Orijen.

Leyna has a full sibling a year older that suffered from pano. I talk to the owner and am friends with her. So, if diet is the be all end all, then I can just as easily say that Orijen is the reason Leyna did not get pano. However, my thoughts are that it is genetic but the quality you feed plays a role on if the dog has symptoms or not.

[onyx'girl]

Originally Posted by Liesje

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I wouldn't even be sure what pano looks like, I don't know that I've ever seen it in my dogs or my foster puppies or my close friends' dogs but it sounds pretty painful for a young, energetic puppy

For Onyx it was a limp with some whining. It shifted legs with different bouts. The front legs were the most painful for her, she was a bit lethargic when she had it in front. She was on Nutro large breed pup for her first 5 months(right before the recalls began)Then I put her on TWO as I transitioned to raw.

Karlo showed only a slight limp/rear leg(my trainer noticed the first bout and it went away within a week each time)

Pano has nothing to do with hips/elbow ratings.

I think some dogs are more stoic too, so will just carry on even if they feel some pain.

It isn't IMO a big deal, just part of puppyhood.

[Elaine]

Originally Posted by onyx'girl

That really doesn't tell me much....other than paying a $150 consult fee for an analysis? I'd like to know what exactly Elaine fed her pup to avoid Pano. But if she doesn't want to share I understand.

My pups were fed to NRC requirements which has to do with actual nutrition and not randomly throwing food at them without any idea of the nutrient profile like most raw diets do.

You feed your pup the actual nutrition for his size and age, and then add calories as needed. The diet is adjusted in the beginning with every three pounds gained or if he needs more or less calories. As the pup gets older, it is adjusted every five pounds.

This way the pup is fed only the level of nutrition he specifically needs for his size, age, and energy level; not more or less.

This does require weighing the pup and guaging his body condition at least weekly, and weighing every single ingredient in his meal every single day.

[Dainerra]

Originally Posted by jaggirl47

Is it that diet lessens the impact though? I don't think it would change the fact that the dog will get it, but I think what you feed can minimize the overall effects of it.

I think, in most cases, diet can CAUSE pano in that over-feeding can make a dog grow too fast.

On the other hand, feeding a smaller amount/lower protein/however you accomplish it, you can slow down the growth rate - no matter what genetic disposition is there. In some cases that might mean a very mild case, in others, no symptoms at all.

Of course, it's kind of hard to prove a negative lol

[onyx'girl]

Did you feed veggies/fruits/ and supplements? Were these commercial prepared type foods from Monica's suggestions, or was everything from scratch? You don't have to be real specific, I just want to know vaguely what you fed.

[jaggirl47]

Originally Posted by Dainerra

I think, in most cases, diet can CAUSE pano in that over-feeding can make a dog grow too fast.

On the other hand, feeding a smaller amount/lower protein/however you accomplish it, you can slow down the growth rate - no matter what genetic disposition is there. In some cases that might mean a very mild case, in others, no symptoms at all.

Of course, it's kind of hard to prove a negative lol

Then if lower protein were the key, both of my dogs would have pano. They are both fed food that is 38% protein compaired to many others that are 24ish%. I have seen more pano in dogs on lower protein diets than on Orijen.

[Dainerra]

kind of my point. every dog is different. it might not be specifically protein - otherwise all raw fed dogs would get it!

kibble especially has a lot of additives and carbs and sugars. both can contribute to rapid growth as well.

Also, again there is probably some level of genetic component. Most likely a combination of factors. Kind of like two brothers - one can eat McDonald's 5 days a week and fatty foods and is healthy vs the second who eats "right" but has heart disease