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Old 11-02-2012, 08:21 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Angry Irresponsible Breeders and Genetic Issues - Rant

After dealing with Moxy's chronic and recurrent skin infections for well over a year now, I finally got a diagnosis today after taking her to a new vet.

The vet told me that Moxy has a genetic problem where she overproduces oil on her skin, and the additional oil causes all the problems as she is allergic to her own oil.

I am angry because, one no other vet has been able to tell me this after all the problems I've had. Two, someone bred her before we got her. Even the vet told me that she should have NEVER been bred, which means that her parents should have never been bred.

Someone, somewhere, decided it would be awesome to breed this awesome dog...and pass on ALL her wonderful skin issue traits to future generations. Obviously, someone didn't give 2 craps to check her pedigree before deciding to breed her....and they obviously wouldn't have understood the pedigree if they had.

Now, my dog has to be on Prednisone for the rest of her life and receive twice weekly baths with a follicle-flushing shampoo for the rest of her life...all because some irresponsible breeder thought it would be a great idea to breed their less than stellar dogs. Way to better the breed.

I feel really sorry for Moxy. She didn't deserve this kind of life. She is constantly itchy, scabby, patchy, and smelly. For it to be hereditary, somewhere down the line, one or both of her parents/grandparents/ancestors had to exhibit the same issues. Why didn't someone say, "You know what? Maybe I shouldn't breed this dog. Even though he/she has a great temperament and would make great pet puppies, I'm going to do the responsible thing and spay/neuter this dog so I will not contribute to a growing problem."

Do the world a favor. If you are planning on breeding your dog, know what the heck you're doing before proceeding. Research pedigrees. Find out about your dog(s). Find out about health issues. Learn about genetics and how they carry on in future generations. Don't breed just to make a buck. Be responsible. Don't ruin a future dog's life because you have a nice looking and good temperament dog. Also, don't ruin things for future first-time GSD owners.

I'm not trying to offend. I'm just really irritated and sad right now.
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Moxy - GSD 6 yo (rescue)
Crow - Bassett fauve de Bretange 4 yo (adopted)
Mew - Maine Coon mix 6 yo (adopted)
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Old 11-02-2012, 08:29 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Moxy View Post
After dealing with Moxy's chronic and recurrent skin infections for well over a year now, I finally got a diagnosis today after taking her to a new vet.

The vet told me that Moxy has a genetic problem where she overproduces oil on her skin, and the additional oil causes all the problems as she is allergic to her own oil.

I am angry because, one no other vet has been able to tell me this after all the problems I've had. Two, someone bred her before we got her. Even the vet told me that she should have NEVER been bred, which means that her parents should have never been bred.

Someone, somewhere, decided it would be awesome to breed this awesome dog...and pass on ALL her wonderful skin issue traits to future generations. Obviously, someone didn't give 2 craps to check her pedigree before deciding to breed her....and they obviously wouldn't have understood the pedigree if they had. If you are planning on breeding your dog, know what the heck you're doing before proceeding. Research pedigrees. Find out about your dog(s). Find out about health issues. Learn about genetics and how they carry on in future generations. Don't breed just to make a buck. Be responsible. Don't ruin a future dog's life because you have a nice looking and good temperament dog. Also, don't ruin things for future first-time GSD owners.

I'm not trying to offend. I'm just really irritated and sad right now.
That goes for buyers too! Research pedigrees, learn about genetics and don't buy impulsively(not saying you did at all, but many people just buy out of convenience and don't look at the breeders program which supports those breeders who don't do right by the dogs).
Was this vet a specialist?
I would get a second opinion,did the vet rule out a yeast infection that is causing the skin issue?
I'd do more research before going the route the vet suggests, and if that is your only option then so be it....Pred is a nasty drug with side effects, but sometimes there are no options

I would think there would be other alternatives to what your vet has suggested.

Canine Allergies and Your Dog's Health - Whole Dog Journal Article

Sorry for Moxy...she must be miserable!
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Last edited by onyx'girl; 11-02-2012 at 08:32 PM.
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Old 11-02-2012, 08:49 PM   #3 (permalink)
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That goes for buyers too! Research pedigrees, learn about genetics and don't buy impulsively(not saying you did at all, but many people just buy out of convenience and don't look at the breeders program which supports those breeders who don't do right by the dogs).
Was this vet a specialist?
I would get a second opinion,did the vet rule out a yeast infection that is causing the skin issue?
I'd do more research before going the route the vet suggests, and if that is your only option then so be it....Pred is a nasty drug with side effects, but sometimes there are no options

I would think there would be other alternatives to what your vet has suggested.

Canine Allergies and Your Dog's Health - Whole Dog Journal Article

Sorry for Moxy...she must be miserable!
I didn't buy from a breeder. I rescued her from the pound the day she was supposed to be PTS. She was emaciated and gross, but she had potential.

I have been to 3 different vets, and this one is the first one to offer a diagnosis that finally made sense. It's been ongoing for over a year, now. Unless I want to constantly spend money on antibiotics,anti-fungals....etc, then this is the maintenance that is required. The prednisone keeps the itching and scratching at bay, which keeps the infections down, same with the shampoo. So, I'd rather go this route, which will be cheaper in the long run, than following a constant cycle of antibiotics/antifungals. And, yes, she has a fungal/bacterial infection right now. So, that is part of the problem, and she is being treated for that. The vet said that the low dose of prednisone, given every other day, will be safe for her over the course of her life than prednisone given every day. He also wants to follow up with her next Friday to make sure this route is working. He was the one who said she should have never been bred.

I'm not trying to sound snippy. I'm still upset at the previous 2 vets that never offered solutions. They just said, "Skin infection" and left it at that. We ruled out flea and food allergies. It's been an uphill battle for a year and a half. There was a 2 month golden period while she was on Doxy for erlichiosis. I'm going to try this route, and we'll see how it goes. She still gets 1000mg of vitamin C daily, with probiotics, coconut oil, grain-free dog food, and raw treats. She got spoiled with some raw beef stew cuts last night. She and the little dog loved those.

I care very much about Moxy. She has an amazing disposition and has been a wonderful companion for our family. I go out of my way to make sure she is taken care of. So, that's why I'm really upset about irresponsible breeding. Especially in a breed like the GSD that is so prone to health problems as is.
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Old 11-02-2012, 08:49 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Yeah. Kinda makes the argument that BYBs are just wonderful to purchase a dog from moot.

I've been saying this for ages, btw, since we see, all the time, the results of poor breeding. Two foster Dachshunds, one blind/deaf from being double-dapple, the other gorgeous coloring (tri color!) and a bad front leg which sticks out all the time and barely supports him, and he's got rampant skin issues as well. And a whole host of our own beautiful Dachshunds with genetic issues...it goes on and one, but it stops here, everyone here is fixed
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Old 11-02-2012, 08:55 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I didn't buy from a breeder. I rescued her from the pound the day she was supposed to be PTS. She was emaciated and gross, but she had potential.
I know you rescued her~and wasn't the one who used her for breeding, that is why I posted what I did in the parenthesis. The link I posted is interesting, worth reading.
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Old 11-02-2012, 08:57 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Yeah. Kinda makes the argument that BYBs are just wonderful to purchase a dog from moot.

I've been saying this for ages, btw, since we see, all the time, the results of poor breeding. Two foster Dachshunds, one blind/deaf from being double-dapple, the other gorgeous coloring (tri color!) and a bad front leg which sticks out all the time and barely supports him, and he's got rampant skin issues as well. And a whole host of our own beautiful Dachshunds with genetic issues...it goes on and one, but it stops here, everyone here is fixed
You poor thing! We got lucky that our little dog has never been sick. Our cat has congestive heart failure, and there isn't much the vet can do for him. He manages pretty well, though. We have all our pets fixed. No way I would EVER get into breeding. Not after this. I think it takes something like this happening to really teach someone of the risks associated with being a BYB.

Thank you for all the advice you have given regarding Moxy in the past. This vet doesn't think the erlichia returned. He was an older gentleman. Had this really wonderful, quiet personality. Talking to him reminded me of the old author James Herriot. He was very knowledgeable and informative. He also had me get hands on and scratch into her fur for myself to see what he was talking about....which I have done in the past, and it was really gross. I do trust this one. You know that feeling you get around certain people. This guy made me feel comfortable. Honestly, I'm just glad it wasn't cancer or anything like that. I wouldn't want to have to put her to sleep any time soon. At least this is manageable.
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Moxy - GSD 6 yo (rescue)
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:03 PM   #7 (permalink)
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that wasn't a breeder that was someone who wanted to make some bucks.
You may have to do a major upheaval in her food. I have seen some very dramatic turnarounds - yes dogs that had run out of options - restore good health .
Greasy coat - has anyone looked into thyroid .
Shampoo with Selsun Blue fortified which will remove oil and fungi . That will take care of the fungal problem , at least externally.
Review the food , include digestive enzymes and probiotics .
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:06 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I know you rescued her~and wasn't the one who used her for breeding, that is why I posted what I did in the parenthesis. The link I posted is interesting, worth reading.
Just read the article, and it does apply to Moxy...and we are doing all that. She is on a salmon-based dog food. No grain. No soy. No chicken fat. She gets doggy probiotics. We took care of the flea problem to rule out fleas. She is being treated with ketoconazole, and has been in the past. Honestly, I'm doing everything that article suggests....except for the herbs. Hard to come by in this place. However, I will be trying my hand at growing my own herbs come spring.

I do appreciate the article, though. It makes sense. Thank you for sharing.
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Moxy - GSD 6 yo (rescue)
Crow - Bassett fauve de Bretange 4 yo (adopted)
Mew - Maine Coon mix 6 yo (adopted)
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:07 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Skin issues can be humongous. The skin is the largest organ on the body.

I would add salmon oil to the diet if you aren't already, feed Natural Balance (or possibly raw) and also wash with a product called Duoxo. DOUXOŽ Shampoos and Sprays

What your vet is describing is seborrhea, which can occur in dogs. The issue is when yeast invade - which in turn causes increased grease/oilyness because the body is trying to flush out the yeast by producing more oil.

I don't know as "allergic to itself" is what's wrong, per se, but it could be described that way maybe.
Also bacteria can jump onto this bandwagon going on in your dog's skin as well.

The duoxo products will address that.

I'd avoid prednisone at ALL costs if you can. A product called Atopica is out there, as well as using zyrtec for dogs.

PS. We had a dog just like you describe, and the above treatments did work well for her.
Just an allergy free diet is enough for the little foster Dachshund we have
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:10 PM   #10 (permalink)
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stinging nettle and dandelion leaves work as well if not better than cleavers.
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