AKC Registery question. How do they *prove* it?

[JenniferF]

I have been scanning over random threads and I see a lot of posts saying their dogs are registered but they want to be sure they are purebred, etc. I'm guessing these people adopted from BYBs. So my question is; how is it *proven* who the mom and dad are? Don't you take the word of the breeder for the most part, even if AKC registering? Can they lie about who it is easily enough if they have the AKC numbers of another dog?
I am not a breeder and do not plan to bred. This is just a question that crossed my mind when I was searching for a pup. Let me know if my question isn't clear enough

[Lucy Dog]

Not really an answer to your question, but having an AKC registered dog means nothing except the dog is purebred.

You can have the absolute worst dog, with the worst temperament, and the most health problems and still be AKC registered. There's no credentials other than the puppy/dogs sire and dam must be registered... that's it.

There are plenty of BYB dogs that are registered with the AKC.

[JenniferF]

I know all of this, and yes- that wasn't my question

Originally Posted by Lucy Dog

Not really an answer to your question, but having an AKC registered dog means nothing except the dog is purebred.

You can have the absolute worst dog, with the worst temperament, and the most health problems and still be AKC registered. There's no credentials other than the puppy/dogs sire and dam must be registered... that's it.

There are plenty of BYB dogs that are registered with the AKC.

[Lucy Dog]

Well, people have been forging things since the beginning of time, so it definitely is possible and I'm sure has happened.

Go to a breeder with a solid reputation with known dogs in their pedigree and this is probably not something you're going to have to worry about. For the reasons I mentioned above, there's really no need for a reputable breeder to forge an AKC registration when there are so many more important things to worry about - health, pedigree, temperament, etc. The registration type would be the least of my worries.

Go to joe schmoe breeding their pet quality dogs in the back shed than maybe you might come across some forgery.

[Lucy Dog]

You might want to take a look at this too: American Kennel Club - DNA and the AKC

[Discoetheque]

I think the only way you can "prove" is through submission of the DNA profile of both parents. I don't know exactly how many breeders make use of this, though.

[Chris Wild]

Originally Posted by JenniferF

Can they lie about who it is easily enough if they have the AKC numbers of another dog?

No where near that easy. For starters, information printed on the AKC certificate of the bitch is required, and that information isn't something someone without the certificate in front of them would be likely to know. The person registering the litter must be the owner of record of the bitch, or if leasing her have a lease agreement on file with AKC that is signed by both owner and leasee. AKC will only mail registration paperwork to the address they have on file for the bitch's owner (or leasee). They also have to be signed by the owner of the stud.

So while someone could lie or cheat or forge documents I guess there are some safeguards in place. Knowing a dog's registered name and number isn't going to be enough to get pups from that dog registered in the name of anyone but the owner. And really, what reason would the owner of the dog have to lie about who the parents are? It has happened with studs in the past, hence the DNA requirement on males. But with females it's usually pretty obvious. The bitch with the droopy boobs that the pups are following around is the dam of the litter.

[JenniferF]

Ooh okay. Yeah it crossed my mind after seeing how easy it was to register my puppy. I don't have a doubt about the guy I adopted but was curious. thanks for the replies

[Chris Wild]

There are two parts to the registration process. First registering the litter, which is where all the documentation and signatures for sire and dam are needed. Then individually registering the pups. The later is much easier if the first part has been done and doesn't require any real verification. The first part, to get those individual registration applications on each pup, is more involved. Still not difficult, but not something that would be easy to fake.

[dawnandjr]

Not sure I completely agree with Chris. My neighbor, who has bred Beagles for years, has lied about sires before. The dog on the paperwork was dead, another male bred the female, but he said it was the other male (since that was a better male). No one checks to see how many pups in a litter, so you could say 10 were born, when only 5 and use the other 5 papers on other pups from another litter. Not difficult to cheat the system at all. There is no one that comes by and checks sire and dams of litters. It is an honor system, and we know how much honor is out there, dont we.