Is this dog a sable?

Liesje · 10-31-2009, 11:36 PM

Is this dog a sable or a blanket black a tan? Can full, dark saddle/blanket but still be a sable? How do you know for sure what the dog is?

Pedigree - mother is sable, father black and tan
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/...ee/607108.html

onyx'girl · 10-31-2009, 11:39 PM

From the look of the abdomen, I say blanket B&T.
We were just discussing this today at the club I was at. Sable will be darker in the underbelly, no breaking in the color pattern.

Fodder · 10-31-2009, 11:41 PM

whats leading you to believe he could be sable? or are you asking/clarifying for someone else?

i'd say hands down that he's a b/t blanket back... even 'patterned sable' would be too much of a stretch for me.

this is as close to a 'saddle' on a sable that i've seen: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/12476.html

onyx'girl · 10-31-2009, 11:45 PM

This is why we were discussing it at the club:
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/...ee/434588.html
From afar I said Tobi could pass as a B & T til you ran your hands thru his coat against the grain.
He is a beautiful red sable (which I knew), and there was discussion after that about pattern,etc. Which then went into bi-color as well...

DancingCavy · 10-31-2009, 11:56 PM

What'd he look like as a puppy? That's the easiest way to tell.

Based on those pictures, I'd say blanket black and tan.

Ocean · 10-31-2009, 11:59 PM

Don't get confused between individual sable hair and a sable colored dog. Any color of GSD can have individual sable hair strands, for example, the bitch stripe on B & Ts.
Also, sable colored dogs can sometimes have a saddle pattern or a blanket pattern.
I've always wondered if the pedigree of Timo Berrekasten was accurate since he does not show any sable dogs in 7 generations or more.
Is it possible for sable to suddenly pop up after many many generations of B & Ts?
Or did a sable working line dog jump the fence while momma was in season?

Ruthie · 11-01-2009, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted By: onyx'girlSable will be darker in the underbelly, no breaking in the color pattern.

I have never heard this before. Can you explain what you mean? I think maybe I don't understand the termanology. Bison is a sable and his belly is the lightest part of his body. You can kinda see from the color of the inside of his right knee.

As mentioned, he is a different color at the base of the fur. (if you pet him backward you can seek it)

Bison on the right.

onyx'girl · 11-01-2009, 12:06 AM

Timo was stunning! But, yeah, how'd that happen...

onyx'girl · 11-01-2009, 12:09 AM

The belly can still be lighter, but you'll see the banding in the guardhair thruout, not a solid type light hair. I tend to look at the neck coloring too. Sables usually have that lighter collar area but not always & striping down the center of the neck.

Ruthie · 11-01-2009, 12:15 AM

Yes, the belly hair is still two-toned, just very light. He has a very distinctive color line. Thanks for explaining. I am still learning all the termanology.

OP, sorry for the interruption.

10-31-2009, 11:36 PM	#1 (permalink)
Liesje Crowned Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 12,970	Is this dog a sable? Is this dog a sable or a blanket black a tan? Can full, dark saddle/blanket but still be a sable? How do you know for sure what the dog is? Pedigree - mother is sable, father black and tan http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/...ee/607108.html __________________ UCH Alta-Tollhaus-Krieger Lamb Chop FO OB1 CL1R CL1F RA TT HIT TDI CGC VPC's Coca-Cola HIT CGC SG UCH Alta-Tollhaus Bono SchH1 AD T1 FO PA CL1R UNJ UCA HIT TT CGC OFA SG Pantalaimon vom Geistwasser BH AD HIT CGC

10-31-2009, 11:39 PM	#2 (permalink)
onyx'girl Crowned Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: SW, MI Posts: 17,605	Re: Is this dog a sable? From the look of the abdomen, I say blanket B&T. We were just discussing this today at the club I was at. Sable will be darker in the underbelly, no breaking in the color pattern. __________________ Jane~ Kept by Onyx, Kacie and Gideon v Wildhaus aka Karlo

10-31-2009, 11:41 PM	#3 (permalink)
Fodder Crowned Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: NoCal-SoCal Posts: 3,855	Re: Is this dog a sable? whats leading you to believe he could be sable? or are you asking/clarifying for someone else? i'd say hands down that he's a b/t blanket back... even 'patterned sable' would be too much of a stretch for me. this is as close to a 'saddle' on a sable that i've seen: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/12476.html __________________ ...mom to gia, tilden & ziggy

10-31-2009, 11:45 PM	#4 (permalink)
onyx'girl Crowned Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: SW, MI Posts: 17,605	Re: Is this dog a sable? This is why we were discussing it at the club: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/...ee/434588.html From afar I said Tobi could pass as a B & T til you ran your hands thru his coat against the grain. He is a beautiful red sable (which I knew), and there was discussion after that about pattern,etc. Which then went into bi-color as well... __________________ Jane~ Kept by Onyx, Kacie and Gideon v Wildhaus aka Karlo

10-31-2009, 11:56 PM	#5 (permalink)
DancingCavy Crowned Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Syracuse, NY Posts: 9,655	Re: Is this dog a sable? What'd he look like as a puppy? That's the easiest way to tell. Based on those pictures, I'd say blanket black and tan. __________________ ~Jamie~ Risa W-FDX/MF RN CGC WCM It Just Keeps Getting Better (Risa's Blog)

10-31-2009, 11:59 PM	#6 (permalink)
Ocean Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 390	Re: Is this dog a sable? Don't get confused between individual sable hair and a sable colored dog. Any color of GSD can have individual sable hair strands, for example, the bitch stripe on B & Ts. Also, sable colored dogs can sometimes have a saddle pattern or a blanket pattern. I've always wondered if the pedigree of Timo Berrekasten was accurate since he does not show any sable dogs in 7 generations or more. Is it possible for sable to suddenly pop up after many many generations of B & Ts? Or did a sable working line dog jump the fence while momma was in season?

11-01-2009, 12:06 AM	#8 (permalink)
onyx'girl Crowned Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: SW, MI Posts: 17,605	Re: Is this dog a sable? Timo was stunning! But, yeah, how'd that happen... __________________ Jane~ Kept by Onyx, Kacie and Gideon v Wildhaus aka Karlo

11-01-2009, 12:09 AM	#9 (permalink)
onyx'girl Crowned Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: SW, MI Posts: 17,605	Re: Is this dog a sable? The belly can still be lighter, but you'll see the banding in the guardhair thruout, not a solid type light hair. I tend to look at the neck coloring too. Sables usually have that lighter collar area but not always & striping down the center of the neck. __________________ Jane~ Kept by Onyx, Kacie and Gideon v Wildhaus aka Karlo

11-01-2009, 12:15 AM	#10 (permalink)
Ruthie Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,495	Re: Is this dog a sable? Yes, the belly hair is still two-toned, just very light. He has a very distinctive color line. Thanks for explaining. I am still learning all the termanology. OP, sorry for the interruption. __________________ Amy Bison (Indo vom Triton) CGC Grizzly vom Buchonia RIP- BearGatorMoose Reflections on my Dog- God/Dog Blog

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