What are the odds...color question? Sables...Black

[Crookedcreekranch]

Bred my black sable female to a solid black stud...figure I would get some sable and some black. Did AI ....got 4 solid black pups....NO sables...Odds must be very high against all solid blacks right? Really wanted some sables....

So now I want to breed them again in the future...will I get any sables?

Here is the pedigree information. Drako Atticus Hexe The stud:

On one side it is completely sables 5 generations back. On the other side in the 5th and 6th generation I am seeing a couple solid black.

Dam I bred him to is Nikita Galadriel of Crooked Creek...she is a dark or black sable (has penciling on toes/legs)

Nikita's mother is sable her father black. In Nikita's 1st three generations I am seeing 7 solid blacks in the pedigree so strong prescence of black here.

Will I get sables this time? What are the odds that the first breeding would produce ONLY solid blacks?

Just curious... if you genetic gurus are inside cause it is so HOT out there and you're bored......

[angelaw]

Yes you can get sables. Sable is the dominant color gene, BUT apparently your female is black recessive so she is the one determining color. If she throws her black color gene, all blacks, throws the sable one, get sables with black recessive.

I have a red sable who carries black. Bred to a bicolor/black recessive, get all 3 colors. I had a litter of 13, 8 were black, last litter of 9? One black, 2 bicolors, 6 sables. Luck of the draw.

So again, your female is the one determining color in this case since the male could only throw black. Eventually she'll throw sable

[Chris Wild]

Each individual pup has a 50/50 shot of being sable or black. Sometimes the genes just match up that way. Just because you got all blacks in one litter doesn't mean you'll get all blacks in the next. You might get a mix. You might get all sables. It's all in how the genes match up in each individual pup, and as I said with those color genes available, each pup has a 50/50 chance of being either color.

This spring we bred a black female to a sable male who carries black. From a statistical standpoint, we'd have expected half the litter to be black, half sable. Instead we got 8 sables, not one single solid black. Just the way it goes sometimes.

[Chris Wild]

Also don't forget that jerk Murphy and the law he made... which essentially says that you'll get the opposite of whatever you want.

Want blacks? You'll get sables. Want sables? You'll get blacks? Want males? You'll get females. Want females? You'll get males.

[angelaw]

lol, yep

[Crookedcreekranch]

Hmmm.....funny Chris how you got all the sables and I got all the blacks....


Well I'll cross my fingers that this time the odds will be in favor of some sables.

Thanks

[Crookedcreekranch]

OK so I have another stud for her I am considering...he is sable and has only sable 7 generations back...I'll get sable right?

[angelaw]

IF both mother and sire lines for the last few are all sable, probably. Has he been bred before? Look at his progeny. Dogs that only have sable will only produce sable no matter what you breed to. My female Oxana, only sable. So I bred her to a black male, ergo Diesel. Sable/black recessive. Now I get colors other than sable.

[Crookedcreekranch]

Yes I have used him 3 times before with actually Nikita's dam (not Nikita though so not a daughter /father breeding just to clarify) who is a sable. I got sables and black/tans out of those breedings in all the litters.

[angelaw]

Then he's not strictly a sable. In order to get the black/tans they both have to carry in order to override a sable gene