Puppy w/ Upset Tummy despite Medication - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-18-2017, 07:22 AM Thread Starter
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Arrow Puppy w/ Upset Tummy despite Medication

Hi All – My 5-month old GSD pup has been having upset tummy with very runny poo for 10 days. On day 2, we got him to the vet who prescribed Metronidazole (400mg) twice/day and Pro-Kolin+, twice/day as well. He is 20kg, but the vet suggested 3ml vs 5 ml, which is the recommended dose on the tube. 8 days later, his energy has been much better but his tummy is still upset with marginal improvement. We give him rice on top of his 170gr / meal Orijen Large Breed Puppy, but it seems there is no effect, apart from him loving having more food! Not sure what the next steps are... We have a follow-up appointment to the vet, however I'm slightly concerned. Any ideas guys? Many thanks!
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-18-2017, 08:46 AM
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I would switch to rice and one meat boiled and not spiced. I would add pure canned pumpkin, like a tablespoon. Can't have sugar and stuff, just pure pumpkin. See if with a really simple diet you can help settle this and calm it down. It is not a complete diet so it is only for say a week or two. Then you can try to introduce the food back slowly. However, Note that some dogs have a hard time with Orijen... seems to be too rich for some. What you describe is not uncommon with Orijen even if it is a highly rated food.

Good luck.

Karin
Dutch Shepherd - Ptygo (Tee-Go) de las Flores
Rescue GSD - Freyja (Husband's Dog)
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-18-2017, 09:57 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you, DutchKarin. Appreciated. When we transitioned from Royal Canin to Orijen Large Breed puppy, he seemed alright. His tummy started to be upset a 3-4 days after we fully transitioned. Do you have any other recommendations for a high-rated food other than Orijen, with less protein? Many thanks for helping us out.
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-18-2017, 10:23 AM
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the dog is 5 months old.

how long have you had him, when did the problem start , what was he fed while at his birth home?

are you in a region which increases chlorine in water source during summer ?

If the problem is only 10 days it may just be a spoiled bag of kibble . I don't know where you reside
but humidity can cause mold spoilage .

did the pup pick up coccidia or giardia ?

is this upset due to some "trash gut" , or family or friends feeding dog treats from the BBQ , or
processed meats - hot dogs -- onion powder laced

better than rice -- give the dog a digestive-day-of-rest -- a 24 hour fast with bone broth available
in addition to clean water

in the bone broth you can add some slippery elm -- soothes the stomach and has nutrition , which rice does
not


here is your Pro-Kolin

HomePro-Kolin+Pro-Kolin EnterogenicDigestive HealthFun StuffUK StockistsContact UsProtexin Pro-Kolin Protexin Pro-Kolin Pro-Kolin<sup>+</sup>
Zootechnical Additives
Protexin probiotic
Enterococcus faecium (NCIMB 10415) E1707
2 x 1011 CFU/kg; 2 x 108 CFU/g

Technological Additives
Kaolin, Preplex® prebiotic – Acacia (Gum arabic)
Sensory Additives
Artificial beef flavouring

Composition
Soya oil, Pectin, Preplex® prebiotic (Fructo-oligosaccharide), Dextrose

****** enterococcus faecium -- strains -- same main active bacteria as Purina Fortiflora

being involved with probiotics I have asked about enterococcus only to find out that there are
facilities which will not allow it in their plant .

there are concerns with enterocuccus . I give you this excerpt , the link to the source of information,
and then leave it to yourself to ponder whether there might be someting better to use .

quote
"Over the past two decades, Enterococcus faecium has emerged as a leading cause of multidrug-resistant enterococcal infection in the United States (Hidron, et al., 2008). E. faecium is intrinsically more antibiotic-resistant than E. faecalis, with more than half of its pathogenic isolates expressing resistance to vancomycin, ampicillin, and high-levels of aminoglycosides. Treating infections caused by this species can be difficult, and the magnitude of the problem is vast


from https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK190429/

Carmen

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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-18-2017, 10:28 AM
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A Ha !

Pure Peanut Butter for Humans OK?

time line and upset align .

stop the peanut butter .

see what happens .

Carmen

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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-19-2017, 02:21 AM Thread Starter
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I decided not to give any peanut butter in the end, so it shouldn't be from there...


Quote:
Originally Posted by carmspack View Post
A Ha !

Pure Peanut Butter for Humans OK?

time line and upset align .

stop the peanut butter .

see what happens .
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-19-2017, 02:30 AM Thread Starter
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We had him since 3 months old. He was having cooked chicken by the breeder, who then suggested Royal Canin, but also Orijen, if we can afford it.

With Royal Canin and during the transitional period to Orijen, the puppy was good. He only had runny stool after running in the park. BTW, it took us 20 days to switch from one food to the other, as per the breeder's advice.

No more chlorine in the summer -we live in London, UK, so no changes during the year.

How can I find out if the kibble is off? Any clues? Yes, this time of year is rather hot and humid in the UK, impossible to keep the food at a dry place...

Neither us or our friends, when we have people around, are allowed to give anything else to pup apart from Orijen and some dog biscuits.

BTW, his energy levels fluctuate dramatically: very happy and energetic, then he drops on the floor and wants to rest. He used to be like that after training, but the swings are more evident now.

Thanks for the broth recommendation: how much slippery elm in -say 1 litre of water?

Quote:
Originally Posted by carmspack View Post
the dog is 5 months old.

how long have you had him, when did the problem start , what was he fed while at his birth home?

are you in a region which increases chlorine in water source during summer ?

If the problem is only 10 days it may just be a spoiled bag of kibble . I don't know where you reside
but humidity can cause mold spoilage .

did the pup pick up coccidia or giardia ?

is this upset due to some "trash gut" , or family or friends feeding dog treats from the BBQ , or
processed meats - hot dogs -- onion powder laced

better than rice -- give the dog a digestive-day-of-rest -- a 24 hour fast with bone broth available
in addition to clean water

in the bone broth you can add some slippery elm -- soothes the stomach and has nutrition , which rice does
not


here is your Pro-Kolin

HomePro-Kolin+Pro-Kolin EnterogenicDigestive HealthFun StuffUK StockistsContact UsProtexin Pro-Kolin Protexin Pro-Kolin Pro-Kolin<sup>+</sup>
Zootechnical Additives
Protexin probiotic
Enterococcus faecium (NCIMB 10415) E1707
2 x 1011 CFU/kg; 2 x 108 CFU/g

Technological Additives
Kaolin, Preplex® prebiotic – Acacia (Gum arabic)
Sensory Additives
Artificial beef flavouring

Composition
Soya oil, Pectin, Preplex® prebiotic (Fructo-oligosaccharide), Dextrose

****** enterococcus faecium -- strains -- same main active bacteria as Purina Fortiflora

being involved with probiotics I have asked about enterococcus only to find out that there are
facilities which will not allow it in their plant .

there are concerns with enterocuccus . I give you this excerpt , the link to the source of information,
and then leave it to yourself to ponder whether there might be someting better to use .

quote
"Over the past two decades, Enterococcus faecium has emerged as a leading cause of multidrug-resistant enterococcal infection in the United States (Hidron, et al., 2008). E. faecium is intrinsically more antibiotic-resistant than E. faecalis, with more than half of its pathogenic isolates expressing resistance to vancomycin, ampicillin, and high-levels of aminoglycosides. Treating infections caused by this species can be difficult, and the magnitude of the problem is vast


from https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK190429/
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-19-2017, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digiwolf View Post
Hi All – My 5-month old GSD pup has been having upset tummy with very runny poo for 10 days. On day 2, we got him to the vet who prescribed Metronidazole (400mg) twice/day and Pro-Kolin+, twice/day as well. He is 20kg, but the vet suggested 3ml vs 5 ml, which is the recommended dose on the tube. 8 days later, his energy has been much better but his tummy is still upset with marginal improvement. We give him rice on top of his 170gr / meal Orijen Large Breed Puppy, but it seems there is no effect, apart from him loving having more food! Not sure what the next steps are... We have a follow-up appointment to the vet, however I'm slightly concerned. Any ideas guys? Many thanks!
The best way for me has been Zeolite powder, I buy it from Amazon and give my dog one spoon three times a day until diarrhea disappears. Works miracles on people too - in fact, there is a Zeolite-based medication sold at CVS for the runs. German Shepherd Dogs tend to have stomach problems and often suffer from irritable bowel disease. It comes with the breed and can only be managed with diet, but gets really stable after a while. Here is what you can do: 1) do not mix proteins, best choose lamb (not chicken) and stick to it for food, treats, snacks, everything; 2) find Metamucil biscuits and give him 2 a day, or just add Metamucil powder to his food (it is given for constipation, but works excellently for my dog and my neighbor's pup). If the problem persists, you may want to switch to dietary food from your vet, like venison-based, duck or fish. We had to do that with our previous GSD for life. Good luck!
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-21-2017, 04:39 AM
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Hi Digiwolf,

We have a 13-month female GSD and she also has quite a sensitive stomach. At one point we were actually trying a different kibble each month because none of them seemed to work for her. In the end, we reached the following conclusions:

- We'd better avoid chicken. We're not 100% sure that she's allergic to it, but she seemed to scratch more when the kibble contained it. The worst offender was a kibble called cotecnica Maxima grain-free: lots of chicken, no rice. Very loose stool and plenty of scratching. She really liked it, though.
- The kibble should have rice. We tried several premium no-grain foods, and her stool was always a bit loose. At one point my husband realised that maybe we should look for something with rice, and asked at the store for a kibble with rice, but no chicken. They recommened the Brit Care Junior Large Breed Lamb & Rice. We haven't looked back since: her stool is not loose anymore and it's really easy to pick up.

Both Orijen and Acana (the puppy formulas) contain chicken, so this is why we haven't tried them. My previous dog (a GSD crossbreed) used to eat Acana Senior or Acana Pacifica and I was really happy with the brand, but she never had any weird stomach issues and no problem with chicken.

For diarrhoea, what worked wonders for our dog was the Hill's I/D canned meat. It's expensive, but it's amazing. We gave it to her one time that she had a stomach bug and it sat really well with her. It's also true that she didn't eat for a whole day and then we gave her the meat in small quantities, but she didn't throw it up and had no more diarrhoea. We always try to have a can or two at home in case she gets an upset stomach.

Hope this helps!

Montse
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-22-2017, 08:08 AM Thread Starter
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Hi guys – Thanks all for your replies and suggestions.

Yesterday, we went on a car ride to the local beach, which is around an hour drive from where we live.

On the way back, in the last few minutes before reaching home, he vomitted at the back of the car – no worries, as our boot is lined with waterproof stuff.

When I opened the boot, I could see the vomit: the Orijen kibble, almost intact – NO chewing! Of course, the kibbles had absorbed water / stomach fluid, but they kept their shape...

Is the fact that he doesn't chew / swallow directly part of the problem?
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