Incest in pedigree? - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 12:21 PM Thread Starter
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Incest in pedigree?

Hey all, so this morning I finally got Apollo's pedigree in the mail. It's exciting to be able to research his lineage to find out where he really came from etc etc, but something caught my attention. I noticed that there was some close inbreeding. Now, I know that linebreeding is still utilized today in some cases so I was wondering if I should be really concerned about this? Also, where can I find more information about where he came from? I'm sure he didn't come from champion bloodlines or anything, but I'm still curious!

Apollo; January 24th 2017
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post #2 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 12:34 PM
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Post the pedigree. There are very trained eyes here for stuff like that.

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post #3 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 01:31 PM Thread Starter
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Okay, here's the pedigree! From what I can see on the sire's line, it *seems* that it consists mostly of dogs bred for temperament, but I could be wrong, I mostly looked at Cripple Creek, but there wasn't much to go off of. My main concern on the linebreeding was that, as you can see, Deja's Maximus Knight is the sire to my pup, and also the sire to his dam, that's awfully close for me not to question it, you know? haha
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Apollo; January 24th 2017
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post #4 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 02:59 PM
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TBH I would have avoided this breeder, but I'm not sure what you're looking for, an answer as to whether the inbreeding is too close or not? IMO yes, but you have your pup now lets just hope that it doesn't reflect poorly on him.

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post #5 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 03:07 PM
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I'd call that inbreeding, not linebreeding. I'm not a breeder and don't pretend to be, so I don't know why someone would do that, but I'd definitely ask the breeder why that decision was made.

Hope you have a great pup! Maybe mention it to his vet so y'all can keep aware.

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post #6 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 03:22 PM
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That is certainly too close. I have heard of people breeding a dog or bitch back to a dam or sire respectively to see what recessives the dog has. But they should have let you know that before you agreed to the purchase. And there has to be a good reason to do it, and even then it is a gamble.

What you have is a 1-2 in-breeding.

Incest is not a word we associate with dog breeding. A dog's moral structure is not set up to follow or not follow an incest taboo. If a dog has opportunity, he will breed with any close relation -- no shame or guilt associated. It is up to breeders to ensure that doesn't happen, or if it does for whatever reason to find out what they want to know and be responsible for any problems that it is much more likely to reveal.
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post #7 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 03:37 PM
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Only a guess... on the assumption that the number in parenthesis is a birthdate(?) and/or the kennel practices litter letters when naming - it looks like cripple creek may have bred siblings a couple generations back. It's also my understanding that that's never okay.
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post #8 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 03:47 PM
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You might get the best or the worst of the traits, or both, but this is not a pedigree of dogs that were bred for temperament and I would be more worried about that than anything else.
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post #9 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 04:02 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dracovich View Post
TBH I would have avoided this breeder, but I'm not sure what you're looking for, an answer as to whether the inbreeding is too close or not? IMO yes, but you have your pup now lets just hope that it doesn't reflect poorly on him.
I'm mostly looking for a companion pup and if I can do something along the lines of agility or something else, I'd love to but time will tell, you know?

Quote:
Originally Posted by selzer View Post
That is certainly too close. I have heard of people breeding a dog or bitch back to a dam or sire respectively to see what recessives the dog has. But they should have let you know that before you agreed to the purchase. And there has to be a good reason to do it, and even then it is a gamble.
As of right now, I'm thinking there wasn't a good reason, and that it was an accidental litter. It's disappointing but so far he seems like a really good pup, and I'll be making sure to notify his vet about the closeness and hopefully we will be able to avoid any serious issues.

I'm crossing my fingers, are the chances really bad that there will be something wrong or.....?

Apollo; January 24th 2017
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post #10 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 04:04 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MineAreWorkingline View Post
You might get the best or the worst of the traits, or both, but this is not a pedigree of dogs that were bred for temperament and I would be more worried about that than anything else.
I'll be sure to keep a close eye on him, he's only 8 weeks right now so I guess only time will tell. I'm hoping temperament wise he will be all right especially considering I have a child at home but like I said I will definitely be proactive.

Apollo; January 24th 2017
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