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Hopeless in OR?

9K views 125 replies 26 participants last post by  voodoolamb 
#1 · (Edited)
German shepherd puppy

It is tempting to just go see and check if they describe/interpret him correctly. He does have prey drive for sure :) It's kinda stepping on thin ice; shall I or shall I not go see him?
I have asked for his trainer and breeder but haven't heard back from the owner. Breeder seems to be in the Medford, OR area. Anyone know about one?
 
#3 ·
Sounds like he has some issues, the screaming when touched? Laying down screaming when they try to train him? They contradict themselves. I don't know, Wolfy, I wonder what else is going on and how much they think they can sell him for.
 
#7 · (Edited)
" I do wonder why they aren't returning him to the breeder, though..."
Because it has no papers. I would avoid this dog. Sorry.
 
#8 ·
Screaming is a thing with solid black WL dogs. You could train it out of him, but do you want to take that on? It could be something to do with children teasing or tormenting him and you might have good results. How much time do you want to ounin with the dog? Other than that, he is a beautiful dog, from what I can see, but killing cats would worry me.
 
#9 · (Edited)
I'd be interested in seeing how he responds to me as a stranger. I am not worried about him killing cats. Plenty of good dogs do that. Deja too I am sure when she gets the chance. What about the screaming in black WLs?
I a not sure if $300 is a bargain. I think she should be happy to give him for free if someone who is willing to work with him, wants him. I doubt that I will take it on but am just curious about him and see if they are correct in their assessment.
 
#10 ·
Doesn't hurt to go look and see what you think.Might just be a very vocal pup.Maybe frustrated too,trapped in the yard all of the time with nothing to do but go after cats?If all medical care is truly up to date $300 is a bargain.It's a crap shoot as far as any health issues that crop up though.
 
#11 ·
Come on wolfy dog.! When's the last time a pup has screamed at you? If you go take video if possible. I would like to see what an out of control dog he really is. What does screaming mean. Athena is very vocal and will whine or scream when she is really excited. Like when I first get home. Or when she gets excited during training. He is a good looking dog. Could be just in a bad environment for a GSD.
 
#12 ·
Good dogs don't kill cats. Don't be silly. Shepherds can't be good farm dogs or family pets if they kill the farm animals or other household/community pets. Are you able and willing to keep your neighbor's cats safe from this dog if you get him? People love their cats just as much, if not more, than you love your dogs. They are valued family members too regardless of how you may view them.

You had problems with your current dog playing too rough with your Collie. If I remember correctly, you chalked it up to a rough play style and did not correct despite your Collie coming up lame repeatedly.

I have had this problem with my own dogs, but I do correct rough play. Regardless, I still have to be very careful letting them play so that they do not injure each other. These are big, strong dogs and accidents happen. If you aren't going to correct your current GSD from playing to rough, how do you plan on keeping this pup from harm?
 
#24 · (Edited)
You had problems with your current dog playing too rough with your Collie. If I remember correctly, you chalked it up to a rough play style and did not correct despite your Collie coming up lame repeatedly.
You have taken this out of context. You don't have a clue how I managed that Collie and Deja. I never said that she was the cause. I only said that he needed a calmer life than I could give him and to prevent me having to restrain Deja for the rest of her life. This is how stories grow negative, so stop it.
 
#15 ·
The prey drive is a sequence of behaviors and not all dogs inherit the kill bite. Field Labs have very high prey drive, but lack the kill bite. The same can be said of many German Shepherds. I have owned many that would chase small animals, but not kill. Once the running stops, the game stopped, no training involved.
 
#14 ·
Owners rehoming puppies are totally unreliable for assessments!

Yes, they'll give you some accurate, factual info that you can use to assess (e.g, the pup has killed cats -- find out the circumstances), but anything related to their own interaction (screaming during training) is being filtered through the perspective of someone who can't manage a GSD puppy. Everything seems worse than it is when you're mad and frustrated with the pup, and they're usually blind to their own role in the behaviors. Totally normal puppy behavior that just spun out of control turns into something being wrong with the dog, from the vantage point of a clueless, frazzled owner.

High prey drive with no outlet but the cat, mouthing that they never learned to redirect, having a hard mouth on human appendages, snapping at treats and toys -- I've seen that on shelter intake sheet questionnaires from former owners over and over with pups at this age and the label "aggressive" put on the pup by the former owner. I've also seen pups labeled as "fearful" (in their lonely, outdoor yard-ornament former homes) who turned out to be sociable and lovely once they became house dogs and had confident dogs as role models.

As you know, screaming while doing a down can happen with some aversive old-school training methods -- and may just signal that the dog was protesting, or even was scared of the owner who had no bond with it. At least he's not shutting down or submissive peeing -- that would be a more typical fearful dog's reaction!

Go see the pup. Evaluate the dog in front of you. Filter out the owner's explanation, and focus on facts from the owner, not clueless opinions about a pup he failed.
 
#19 ·
I know highly skilled people who ultimately had to rehome their high prey drive GSDs due to killing family cats to homes without cats and with the ability and commitment to ensure the safety of others. They tried everything and consulted with the best of the best.

If we are going to own dogs like these with the capacity of harming or killing other household pets or those of other people in our communities, we have to be realistic about the potential and about assuming appropriate control and management or we can be looking at some of the same legal problems facing other breeds of dogs today when their owners assume a cavalier attitude about inappropriate animal aggression.

And if this is the level our breed has sunk to, maybe we need to take a good, serious look at some breeding practices. A German Shepherd should first and foremost be a good family pet and good family pets don't kill other household pets, nor should they be a menace to other pets in the community.
 
#22 ·
he sounds semi-feral .

poorly socialized , if at all , hence the screaming when someone wants to touch him . This present from 11 weeks of age .

" He still screams out anytime someone walks around a corner or someone touches him and he wasnt expecting it."

Panics .

In the picture there is no collar on him. Bet you anything that he would drop and roll , bite the lead, squeal like a stuck pig at the slightest little pressure from the collar .

Avoidance ---

could be a life time of cat and mouse , lure and bribe , or worst case scenario could panic on lead and become handler aggressive in an attempt to get away in blind panic.

possibly dog will never bond nor trust .

this is a BIG mess
 
#25 ·
I don't know if she still has him. I would not take him because I will listen to my own advice and I agree with Carmspack. I wold still like to see him but I referred her to the rescue and I think that is what she will do. They have a good heart but are in over their heads. We do not need to be so negative about them.

Regarding prey drive: I critter trained Deja so it is no longer an issue. And when it comes to cats; people need to be responsible for their own cats' well being and not let them roam around on our property and expect us to keep them safe. These cats kill the native birds so I don't care if the coyotes take them.
I have had sight hounds. They will kill everything they can get. But they are great pets. I love Deja's intense drive and she is a sweet pet dog for me.
 
#31 ·
Regarding prey drive: I critter trained Deja so it is no longer an issue. And when it comes to cats; people need to be responsible for their own cats' well being and not let them roam around on our property and expect us to keep them safe. These cats kill the native birds so I don't care if the coyotes take them.
I have had sight hounds. They will kill everything they can get. But they are great pets. I love Deja's intense drive and she is a sweet pet dog for me.
I'd feel bad if a kid accidentally let a cat out (happens all the time) and a coyote or neighbors dog killed them.
 
#32 ·
I would just say I have known a couple dogs that were semi feral like Carmspack said about this one, wuich was also my impression reading the ad. Of course the owners could be misrepresenting. But it can be a life sentence dealing with these dogs that have canine reactive attachment disorder. Are you willing/able to do that...be there for it...manage it. Or euthanize it if not because it might not be able to be placed safely in another home.

It may not be that bad. I am the type of person who can't walk away once I stick my nose in so I have to ask myself these thinga ahead of time because it may be in my best interest or my only option not to get involved. If you know what I mean

If you are able to help this poor dog, then please do. It isnt having a good life and isn't likely to unless someone special takes an interest.
 
#34 ·
If you are able to help this poor dog, then please do. It isnt having a good life and isn't likely to unless someone special takes an interest.
The dog will likely be put down unless someone connects with it and can help it, but it's only for a very experienced owner with this particular type of behavior. We can be good at training our own dogs and still not able to handle something this extreme. I still think the best way to get a good, intact dog is from a breeder. It's very unlikely to get one anywhere else. Breeders sometimes have dogs turned back to them that they need to rehome.
 
#35 ·
Well I am under the impression that Wolfy Dog has a decent amount of experience and ability.

As for killing stuff...I don't get that worked up about it, I know plenty of people do. I had a rescue who was a serial killer, and he would kill things smaller or bigger than him with skill and ease. I did what needed to be done and he was a beloved member of our family.

I know plenty of people take dogs like that out back and shoot them, I guess I dont get that emotional about a dog acting like a predator, it iS a predator.

And I totally agree not all dogs have the "kill shot", my female GSD just doesn't. She will chase but there is absolutely nothing there as far as doing actual harm to a prey animal, and I know this for certain. It is a different kind of burden to keep a dog who can and will kill.
 
#39 ·
Well I am under the impression that Wolfy Dog has a decent amount of experience and ability.
I'm not questioning her experience, but until one has handled a dog with extreme behaviors you don't know if you can handle this or not. It's not typical training, the dog will require intensive behavior modification and not everyone can do that for this specific behavior. Maybe she could if she wanted to. Having had a difficult dog with nowhere near those problems, I was not prepared for what I had. It took years to learn how to handle the dog properly and then he made a good pet.

Killing on a farm is a different thing than trying to kill their other pets. Would you want a dog that killed your pets or tried to? I wouldn't. I have one rule, and that is peaceful living within our own home. Now, if we had a rat or a mouse and one of my dogs caught it, I wouldn't be upset with them. I don't want them going after snakes. We had a poisonous snake in our yard once, I heard it before I saw it, and there is no way I want them even thinking about it.
 
#36 ·
It is not about being turned off by the dog being a predator. It is about the lackadaisical attitude toward the life of somebody else's pet when your pet is the predator. One's predator's life is not more important than the life of somebody else's pet.

But all in all, a GSD can't be a farm dog if it is killing the barn cats or other small animals. It can't be a good family pet if it is killing the cats and Chihuahua with which it shares its home. There is a breed standard, it calls to have the ability to protect and guard, not for the family to have to protect and guard from the breed.
 
#37 ·
Well, not for nothing but I put mine to good use. I impressed upon him that he should not kill MY animals but if he would kindly dispatch other predators who wanted to kill my animals that would be helpful. He hunted ***** and possums and snakes and anything else feasting on my livestock.

I rather hated killing the rat snakes, if only they would have eaten the **** rats but no, they would sit
t in my coop and gorge themselves on eggs all day, while I spend a fortune feeding organic feed to my chickens and barely get at egg at the end of the day. Sorry guys, but, off with their heads. I found a huge pair of rat snakes in my nesting boxes one day and killed them and they were so full of eggs that yolk streamed out after I lopped them with the shovel.
 
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