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-   -   What should I allow? (pack structure) (http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-puppy-stuff/415194-what-should-i-allow-pack-structure.html)

coulter 02-23-2014 03:34 PM

What should I allow? (pack structure)
 
My question is, now that i have my new puppy, Ryker, How do i let him and my 1.5 yr old female Sage interact? Sage is not a dominant dog, she is very submissive, Ryker even though he is only 8.5 weeks is very strong willed, especially with Sage and he will retaliate if he doesn't like something.. they get along great and seem to play with no problems. but is there something i need to do as far as helping them figure out the pack structure between themselves, and between ryker and I? Or do i just let it play its course? Ryker does not seem to be willing to submit to either myself or Sage. Is this a problem? Or is he just far too young for any of that yet?:confused:

Baillif 02-23-2014 03:37 PM

I wouldnt let then interact at all till the puppy is older.

Chip18 02-23-2014 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baillif (Post 5072666)
I wouldnt let then interact at all till the puppy is older.

What he said. Don't force the older dog to have to control the puppy that's your job, If you jack this up expect trouble in 18 to 24 months.



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Harry and Lola 02-23-2014 03:57 PM

Let Sage and Ryker interact, it will build a bond and establish a good relationship between each other, no matter who will be the more dominant as they both mature. However, do not let Ryker overstep the mark with you. You must take control of him.

Harry and Lola sound very similar to your 2, Harry was and still is a very dominant dog, Lola is submissive and really easy going. I always allowed them interaction, they are never without each other and this helped build their relationship.

Yes they have had and still have 'words' with each other every so often and Lola has only seriously disciplined him a couple of times - when he went near her food bowl and annoyed her too much, and he was better for it.

Now, Harry is 3 and Lola is 5 and Harry is the dominant one between them, sometimes the older one will not be the dominant one because even though they are older and therefore suppose to enjoy right of passage - if they are not naturally dominant and the younger one it, then they will fall into their roles very easily, far better than a dominant younger and older one.

So, if they get on and enjoy each other, let them play and find their roles in the pack together, they are going to be together for the next ten plus years.

Baillif 02-23-2014 04:01 PM

Could easily end up with a dead puppy when you aren't looking or maybe even if you are. I have seen it happen. Don't force it as wait till the puppy is older.

gsdsar 02-23-2014 04:05 PM

I let my puppy interact with my adults from the get go. I was always present, always controlled the situation. Never had an issue.

All of my dogs also get alone time with me.

Use your common sense. If your adult us being pestered, and the puppy is not listening to her signals, step in and remove the puppy.


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Baillif 02-23-2014 04:11 PM

Do what you want just know even if you are there to supervise a puppy that age has a soft skull and a dog that is around a year old can easily crush it in a half a second. Not saying this will happen, but i have seen it with a dog that wasn't even dog aggressive. Not worth risking imo.

Harry and Lola 02-23-2014 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baillif (Post 5072786)
Could easily end up with a dead puppy when you aren't looking or maybe even if you are. I have seen it happen. Don't force it as wait till the puppy is older.

And you could end up with a dead adult if not looking! I agree, puppies need to be protected, however they also need to learn and if you have a bitch that is submissive and won't get grumpy at a little one, then by all means allow them together.

Sage is a naturally submissive girl, Ryker even at 8 weeks is showing natural dominance - exactly the same as Lola and Harry.

As long as you are careful, absolutely allow them interaction as it really does help with building their relationship together and define their roles in the pack.

I wouldn't allow Ryker and Sage to eat together at this stage, in the same room but not right next to each other. I used to put Harry in a crate with his food bowl and Lola's food bowl next to the crate so that they got used to each other whilst eating. This worked very well (except for one time, when I forgot to close the crate and a very young Harry strolled out and went to eat Lola's food while she was eating - she was not happy) and by doing this, they both learned to respect each others food bowl. Now they eat right next to each other, wait until each has finished then swap positions so they can lick each others bowl.

They have respect for each other, have clearly defined roles and as a result are very close.

Baillif 02-23-2014 04:16 PM

Natural dominance at 8 weeks? More like puppy being a puppy. Its imo best to wait till the pup is closer to 15 weeks or older before supervised introductions.

Harry and Lola 02-23-2014 04:23 PM

Puppies at 8 weeks can and do show natural dominance and submissive tendencies, watch a litter for a while and there will always be more dominant and more submissive ones. If a dog is naturally dominant or submissive, this will be evident from very very young, they don't learn to be this way, they either are or are not.

When I think back to Lola and Harry in their litters, Lola was probably one of the more submissives and Harry was the most dominant one by far. They still carry these roles today.


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