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Old 02-23-2014, 04:29 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Welp thats great it worked out in your case but frankly you got lucky. Ive heard and seen cases where this was not the case. Young adult dog was lounging around dog was great with other dogs large and small. Puppy came over to meet the older dog and older dog lunged grabbed it by the head and gave one shake. No warnings given. Puppy died on the spot.

You hear stories like that all the time. It isn't super uncommon.
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Old 02-23-2014, 04:32 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Yes that can happen and Coulter will have to judge the situation carefully.
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Old 02-23-2014, 04:32 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I wouldnt let then interact at all till the puppy is older.
Wow I've honestly never heard that advice from anyone before. I couldn't imagine not letting them be together as it's my goal to make sure they have as great a relationship with each other as to me.

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Could easily end up with a dead puppy when you aren't looking or maybe even if you are. I have seen it happen. Don't force it as wait till the puppy is older.
I understand that you must be careful. Especially with a snappy dog, but Sage is very much the opposite. She interacts with him just as much as he does. She will start the playing /wrestling as well. So it is definitely not forced at all. Sage has never tried to get away from the situation.


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Do what you want just know even if you are there to supervise a puppy that age has a soft skull and a dog that is around a year old can easily crush it in a half a second. Not saying this will happen, but i have seen it with a dog that wasn't even dog aggressive. Not worth risking imo.
Well that's the reason I posted was to get people's opinion to help me figure out what is best. So your saying keep both of my dogs completely seperated till he's how old?
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Old 02-23-2014, 04:36 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Let Sage and Ryker interact, it will build a bond and establish a good relationship between each other, no matter who will be the more dominant as they both mature. However, do not let Ryker overstep the mark with you. You must take control of him.

Harry and Lola sound very similar to your 2, Harry was and still is a very dominant dog, Lola is submissive and really easy going. I always allowed them interaction, they are never without each other and this helped build their relationship.

Yes they have had and still have 'words' with each other every so often and Lola has only seriously disciplined him a couple of times - when he went near her food bowl and annoyed her too much, and he was better for it.

Now, Harry is 3 and Lola is 5 and Harry is the dominant one between them, sometimes the older one will not be the dominant one because even though they are older and therefore suppose to enjoy right of passage - if they are not naturally dominant and the younger one it, then they will fall into their roles very easily, far better than a dominant younger and older one.

So, if they get on and enjoy each other, let them play and find their roles in the pack together, they are going to be together for the next ten plus years.

How can I tell if Ryker is overstepping it with me?

They do get along great already Sage has only done some minor corrections bit I feel like ryker understood immediately.
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Old 02-23-2014, 04:39 PM   #15 (permalink)
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What he said. Don't force the older dog to have to control the puppy that's your job, If you jack this up expect trouble in 18 to 24 months.



Leerburg | The Ground Work to becoming Your Puppy's Pack Leader
I definitely control the situation all the time, and Sage definitely is not forced into any of it. She tries to play with him more sometimes because he is already tired out from there playing but Sage could keep going.
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Old 02-23-2014, 04:41 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Im saying delay it for a few weeks till your little guy is closer to 16 weeks. They can hang out with a barrier between them before that. Id give it a little time though. Definitely whatever you do dont leave them alone together.
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Old 02-23-2014, 04:42 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Welp thats great it worked out in your case but frankly you got lucky. Ive heard and seen cases where this was not the case. Young adult dog was lounging around dog was great with other dogs large and small. Puppy came over to meet the older dog and older dog lunged grabbed it by the head and gave one shake. No warnings given. Puppy died on the spot.

You hear stories like that all the time. It isn't super uncommon.
Hmm. I'd love for some more seasoned veterans to chime in on this thread to see what they think/ agree with. Naturally I just want what's best for both dogs.
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Old 02-23-2014, 04:44 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Im saying delay it for a few weeks till your little guy is closer to 16 weeks. They can hang out with a barrier between them before that. Id give it a little time though. Definitely whatever you do dont leave them alone together.
No I don't leave them alone together. My wife and I are either in the room playing with them or we make the pup follow us around the house.
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Old 02-23-2014, 04:52 PM   #19 (permalink)
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figure out the pack structure between themselves, and between ryker and I? Or do i just let it play its course?
That is a receipt for disaster! You have two unbalanced dogs both at extremes. If your going to "let them work it out..."what are you "there for?"

Mostl likely Baillif, gave his advised based on that? He can speak for himself, maybe no puppy and Adults play together straight up and that's his policy?

I'm just JQP so I got not problem in pointing out the obvious!

Leerburg site has a story about an Adult GSD snapping the head of a Beale pup, so yeah it happens!

I had a BullMastiff/Pitt Dominate Male he never met an adult dog that he did not want to push around. But...he loved puppies, I brought puppies in the house and he helped raised them, no problems ever but he was a confident dog! So yeah it can be done without issues.

But... you have to base the puppy/adult relationship on your dogs! If you have a submissive dog, that's a dog that is not sure you are there to protect her? That would be a dog under stress and now you bring in a holy terror to torment her..good luck with that!

Lecture and amateur dog physiology lecture over!

First step in fixing an issue is stopping and thinking and looking for help! You've done that, so congratulations.

You really have two dogs that you need to work with not one (my opinion) first step keep everybody safe, if the Adult dog doesn't chose to interact with the puppy, keep the puppy away.

If your up for the challenge ask questions, if your not, find a certified qualified behaviourist in your area and ask for help. Both are legitimate solutions!
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Old 02-23-2014, 04:55 PM   #20 (permalink)
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It is your Sage who is dominant. Dominant dog doesn't fight and often displays submissiveness, those who have power over others don't have to fight, but they are very determined to get what they want, they are demanding. Look what she really likes to be the first at and what she subsequently dictates, it could be food she's jealous to receive from your hands, or place to sleep, or other preferences, and not necessarily all of them at once. If Ryker behaves as pushy and abusive - he is just a status seeking individual, and not necessarily he will get it. If I were you, I'd leave your dogs alone to sort it out between themselves, and focus on your relationship with a young male. It could be tricky taking him out for a walk and training him separately from your other dog, so not to cause jealosy and imparting frustration on her. By playing with your dog and training him at the same time you yourself determine his status as an inferiour, because only the leader could be a teacher whom the other dog just copies. You can start with training him fetching, dropping at your feet and giving into your palm a ball by command. Do it in the open area in the park off leash. This simple game doesn't only help your puppy physical development, but it helps establishing proper relationship with your dog. Many trainers use a ball as a major tool in training. The ball represents a prey object for the dog (flying ball is a bird, bouncing ball is hopping mouse). The leader of the pack is fed by others, he gets first to the food, by bringing this rubber "prey" back to you your dog unconsciously agrees with your leadership. When your puppy starts playing and giving well, take your older dog on the playing ground. There are quite a few techniques how to play ball with two dogs. Either you play one ball with one dog sitting and waiting for his turn, or with two balls, you can read about it on the net, or ask here, in this Forum. By creating an environment and managing physical competition you would cease competition for higher status in your pack. Another thing - handfeed them both in one room, giving the priority to your Sage by asking Ryker to wait for longer. Both dogs must be sitting in front of you, you might need to tether them at the beginning of training. That is to train Rycker patience.

Last edited by David Taggart; 02-23-2014 at 05:02 PM.
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