rethinking "popular" early socialization - German Shepherd Dog Forums

Increase font size: 0, 10, 25, 50%

GermanShepherds.com is the premier German Shepherd Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-23-2014, 04:41 PM   #1 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: ontario -
Posts: 7,553
Default rethinking "popular" early socialization

take note of the word "popular"

How many dogs have been damaged by early socialization .
If the forum is a fair , random, sampling , I would say quite a few.

so let that be the opening salvo to open the discussion .
__________________
Carmen

**********

Carmspack
carmspack is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-23-2014, 04:44 PM   #2 (permalink)
Zombie Queen Moderator
 
jocoyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 13,647
Default

The only dogs I had issues with were the ones I did "random puppy playtime" with. I don't think they learned "proper" dog behavior from that experience.

I was careful with the current dog to only let him interact with stable adult dogs after he left the litter, and now he is fine, even with other dogs acting snarky around him.
__________________
Nancy
www.scsarda.org

Beau -NAPWDA Certified Cadaver Dog
Waiting at the Bridge (italics=GSDs) (hemangiosarcoma=blue):Grim , Cyra, Toby, Rainbow, Linus, Oscar, Arlo & Waggles
jocoyn is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-23-2014, 04:51 PM   #3 (permalink)
Elite Member
 
dawnandjr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Macedon, NY
Posts: 1,357
Default

I really thought I did a disservice to my second litter. I had surgery and was not able to get them out. I really dont think that weighed as much as I had originally thought. VERY sensitive is an understatement. I think that had more to do with it. My singleton I just had last summer I made sure to get out everywhere. Very easy to do with just one. But I also think his breeding had a lot to do with his even temperament. Very social, not easily phased, biddable, total clown.
dawnandjr is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-23-2014, 05:00 PM   #4 (permalink)
Member
 
Dudes mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: West Tennessee
Posts: 123
Default

Just gonna comment on my 2 current dogs because they are the 1st puppies I have raised in years.

If we are talking in terms of early socialization as just "exposure to" (sights sounds etc...), then I consider it successful. Nothing really phases them but I am still careful with them. We have a community of minunites (sp?) who use their horse and cart to come to town when they need to shop. The first time the boys saw one, and it was physically close, I'd say about 10ft from us, they were curious but nonreactive. I think this is because I have always taken them with me places and they have seen so many things.

If we are talking about socializing with other dogs, I haven't done that. Everyone I know with dogs, doesn't have a dog I would want my dog to grow up to be like
Dudes mom is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-23-2014, 05:03 PM   #5 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
Lilie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: South Texas
Posts: 10,781
Default

I think forced socialization becomes the problem. When the handler becomes so obsessed with their puppy being buddies with all other canines. I think that puts too much stress on the puppy as well as the handler. Stress = breakdowns in social patterns.
__________________
Hondo Von Dopplet L Bauernhof "Hondo"- GSD
Lilie's Tug McGraw "Tug" - Golden Retriever
Maggie - Mini Dachshund (Rescue)
Lonestar Pivo - Texas Blue Lacy
Ashe - Barn Cat
Katie / APHA
Lilie is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-23-2014, 05:05 PM   #6 (permalink)
Master Member
 
Harry and Lola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 947
Default

When I look at my current 2 - they were both taken along to the local dog park at around 16 weeks for socialisation. With Lola on her first outing, I misjudged a dog and he went for her, I have never forgiven myself for that and was careful with her from then on, however there were 2 other occasions where she was really frightened. Her easy going, fantastic nature has prevailed, however her attacks were from large breed dogs and to this day she is not very comfortable around larger dogs - little dogs she loves. Harry didn't have any issues with other dogs, however imo he grew a little too sure or himself and dominant, almost like a bully too young.

My next GSDs, will I take them to the dog park? NO, I don't think I will, as someone else said, I will only allow them around really stable older dogs.

I have seen many a puppy come into a dog park and attacked. When I think about these situations, both owners (puppy owner and dog attacking owner) were at fault. The puppy owners are nervous and this impacts on the puppy and the attacking dog picked up on the puppies instability through nervousness.

My previous GSDs were not taken to dog parks and I don't recall any instability with them.
__________________

if your GSD is eating and eating and eating and losing weight - please consider testing for EPI.

http://www.epi4dogs.com/epiinsnapshots.htm
Harry and Lola is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-23-2014, 05:07 PM   #7 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Muskeg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Igloo
Posts: 210
Default

Yes, indeed. I have fully hopped on board the anti-puppy playtime wagon. With my next pup, or if I have a litter, the pups will socialize with their "pack" and stable adult dogs only. I'd vastly prefer my dogs ignore other dogs than get excited about them. It is very annoying to have a dog that blows you off when another dog is around- for whatever reason- reactivity-defense or playfulness. I think the best way to raise a pup is to expose him/her to other dogs but not interact with them. That way, strange dogs just become background noise. If I was raising a pup with no other dogs in the household, I'd seek out stable adults to interact with- preferably of the shepherd variety. But I'd avoid puppy playtime unless it was one on one with a pup and owner I knew well and who had similar views on puppy raising.

Since we do see off leash dogs every day, my gold standard is to have an adult dog that is OK with a brief "hello" from another dog (less than five seconds), then ignores the dog and moves on. I've found this to be a reasonable expectation and one that works well in the dog social world as well.
Muskeg is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-23-2014, 05:21 PM   #8 (permalink)
Zombie Queen Moderator
 
jocoyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 13,647
Default

As far as experiences. We pretty much went anywhere and everywhere. Except for doggy places.
__________________
Nancy
www.scsarda.org

Beau -NAPWDA Certified Cadaver Dog
Waiting at the Bridge (italics=GSDs) (hemangiosarcoma=blue):Grim , Cyra, Toby, Rainbow, Linus, Oscar, Arlo & Waggles
jocoyn is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-23-2014, 05:21 PM   #9 (permalink)
Member
 
Vagus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NZ
Posts: 175
Default

When I got first got my puppy, I fully intended on socializing him as much as possible, because I thought that was the right thing to do. In puppy school, he was the quiet one. He didn't leave my side and wouldn't play with the other dogs during the designated socialisation time. The trainer told us to pick him up and put him in the middle and he'd just walk right back to me. He did watch them very curiously though and would wag his tail when he saw them playing with each other. It seemed he was just unsure of himself.

At the beach he would walk flush up against my leg, never leaving my side (no leash) and even tucking in his tail when little dogs barked at him. These behaviours made me think I had a timid puppy who would eventually grow up to become fearful dog. Despite everything online saying socialise socialise socialise, I decided to give him a break and build his confidence at home while limiting the chance of anything traumatising happening to him in the outside world. Now at 16 months he's bursting with confidence! He loves every dog and person he meets and if the dog is snappy he just moves along like nothing happened. I saw the shift from around 6 months on, and couldn't be happier with him. He was clearly out of his comfort zone when he was in these situations as a puppy, and I'm glad I didn't push him too much.

We did start go to a training club when he was around 5 months old, which I figured should be fine since it's a controlled situation. There are a few different trainers there who have met him on separate occasions and all of them have commented on his great disposition.

We played a lot of tug (letting him win almost always), lots of positive reinforcement, and limited exposure to potentially nasty situations. Not as much socialisation as I intended, but I'm so happy with the outcome
Vagus is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-23-2014, 05:24 PM   #10 (permalink)
Member
 
Sookie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: was Virginia, now England
Posts: 189
Default

Sookie's first six months (after being saved from the streets where kids were stoning her - they killed a couple of her siblings) were at a rescue whe she lived in a huge pen with 4-5 other pups. She interacted/played with the other 200 or so dogs there, as well as cats, kittens, and the family who runs the rescue. Basically running wild and free on a "dalmation plantation" set-up

She loves other dogs and playing with them, but she only really gets to play at doggie daycare; when we are walking and other dogs approach she is interested but not insane about them. She isn't scared of dogs or anything; she is very intense and energetic but nothing startles her. I don't know if that's from her early days or what but you can vacuum around her and close gunshots don't faze her. But maybe she wouldn't have had any nervousness or sensitivity regardless of her early "mega-socialisation." It's nice though - you can really park the running vacuum next to her and she doesn't care
Sookie is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:55 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
PetGuide.com
Basset.net DobermanTalk.com GoldenRetrieverForum.com OurBeagleWorld.com
BoxerForums.com DogForums.com GoPitbull.com PoodleForum.com
BulldogBreeds.com FishForums.com HavaneseForum.com SpoiledMaltese.com
CatForum.com GermanShepherds.com Labradoodle-dogs.net YorkieForum.com
Chihuahua-People.com RetrieverBreeds.com