rethinking "popular" early socialization - Page 20 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #191 of 207 (permalink) Old 04-19-2014, 02:12 PM Thread Starter
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I guess I am pinning this thread "puppy got bit by a bigger GSD" to the early socialization because there are so many points useful to discussion in socializing your pup to dog . Puppy got bit by a bigger GSD

In this case both young dogs were totally over excited . The other dog owner's description was "super friendly" which may be a total misread on seemingly harmless behaviour from his viewpoint , but totally , blatantly , different when perceived from the two dogs' perception .
First impressions. Each dog took a read on the other . Neither in a calm state - two over excited pups . Neither old enough to have established trust from the respective owner, neither one old enough to have controllability so that the situation could be controlled, before it got out of hand. Both dogs were indifferent to the owners. Simple youthful rambunctiousness propelled them into a situation where the youngest was cowed , the older dog emboldened , excited by prey squeals bites the young one more . The situation was ripe for social conflict .
Once separated both had their hair up and still in a state of confused fear (aggressive) arousal.

When you introduce a young dog to another only do so if you know the other dog , and the other dog is not indifferent to the owner , and be able to control your young one so that it is not disrespectful to the older dog - who will give a deserved correction .

Read an interview of Martina Urich , handler of Decster von Barbatus , 9th place Baunatal BSP trials, in Das Schaferhund Magazin.
When asked how Decster was socialized the answer was that there was no particular format , but many things are learned by the young whelp just by living a normal life (Viele Dinge lernt ein Welpe bei mir schon im, normalen Leben) . A little food motivation work, a little booty drive with the tugs . Time goes quickly .
The dog was introduced to working around other dogs around 10 to 12 months and made the first schutzhund club at 12 months.

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post #192 of 207 (permalink) Old 04-19-2014, 06:46 PM Thread Starter
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when I said first impressions, I didn't mean mine or ours, but the first impression that the dogs' had of each other.
In this case neither dog was experienced enough nor mature enough to have any SELF-control, and at the same time did not have outside control by the owners.
They read each other by body postures, vocalization and even scent .
The "other" dog may have been attending this park with its owners for a frequent period and in its mind this was his park . Here comes a stranger (the younger pup) , who is not calm , may be a problem , in any case coming into his territory.
Quick . Do something . Quick , and so without the time necessary to do the ritualized meet and greet , one dog discovered the younger to be afraid and vulnerable , just as he himself was, took advantage and cowed the other into submission -- some control.

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post #193 of 207 (permalink) Old 04-20-2014, 09:36 PM
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David suggested I put a link to this post here

Nice behavior Beau with other dog

Appropriate behavior from a dog with ZERO puppy playtime after leaving the pack. All interactions were either with known stable adult dogs and after he was a few months old, the goal was to ignore other dogs.

Today we had a good offlead experience with my dog and a teammate's dog on her farm. The ability to "be a dog" was not impaired by not having puppy play time. They knew how to interact, then chill out together when they were a panting heap. Their past exposure to each other was team training - mainly doing obedience near each other.

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post #194 of 207 (permalink) Old 04-21-2014, 01:01 AM
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Thanks Nancy. I think your experience fits in perfectly with the content of the thread.

It will be nice to have everything readily available when referencing the thread later.

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post #195 of 207 (permalink) Old 05-06-2014, 01:58 AM
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So far, having my pup for 4 weeks now. I've noticed her become more confident with other dogs. When I took her to the dog park for the first time, she was a little timid and shy around larger dogs and tended to avoid interacting with them. But as she's grown larger she has become more confident and would play with the other adult dogs and puppies. The breeder told me they were socialised before I got her and all I needed to do was continue letting her play with other dogs and she should be fine

Same happened with my other previous GSDs
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post #196 of 207 (permalink) Old 05-06-2014, 09:13 AM Thread Starter
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but time interacting with other dogs should be brief and ideally with meeting up with the same group.
You say you have had the dog for 4 weeks, so guessing your dog is less than 16 weeks - that is still young and impressionable .
Dog parks are notorious for problems .

When your dog is so immersed in other dogs you tend to loose out at being interesting . The dog will loose some of the skills it needs to understand you as it will be with a group that already has a two way line of communication.

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post #197 of 207 (permalink) Old 05-23-2014, 11:26 PM Thread Starter
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for reference "

Quote:
Originally Posted by carmspack
this wasn't the case in this class , but found this interesting Why Does My Herding Dog Seem to Hate Labs?

maybe the owner of the retriever had some bad experience with a GSD previously so was being the "helicopter parent" .


Thanks for posting this, I haven't read this before, explains everything perfectly and is very easy to comprehend

Should be a sticky for explaining why GSDs behave the way they do especially in dog parks.
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post #198 of 207 (permalink) Old 06-25-2015, 11:36 AM Thread Starter
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Bailiff reinforces exactly what I have been saying !!!
just read pages 3 and 4 of this Max The movie and Mals everywhere.

I said it here Eat, Bite, Whine, Repeat -- keep on going and you'll need the book Fired Up , Frantic and Freaked Out

more from Bailiff "

Doesn't matter what their day was like.

They are conditioned to relax in the house. I don't allow them to play in the house or do anything high intensity in the house outside of something that has a cue to start and finish.

When we go outside or in the training room they go nuts. When they are in working mode they are wired. In the house or crate it is chill time.

People always go assuming a tired dog is a good dog. No. A tired dog is a tired dog. If you went to a maximum security prison and saw a serial killer who had just gotten done lifting weights all day because that is all he had to do, and he was asleep in his cell would you go and say oh what a good man? No. He is still a psycho killer he is just asleep. Same with dogs.

People who don't understand dogs and training assume keeping them calm is about tiring them out and it isn't the case. Keeping them calm is about managing and training their mental and emotional states. "
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post #199 of 207 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Courtney View Post
Luckily for us what people told me socialization was supposed to look like right off the bat made me uneasy. It seemed so forced-fake. I'm not a outgoing person with a ton of friends always on the go. My social circle is small. My husband and I private. The idea of having to meet random strangers all the time, stopping for petting zoo type of encounters with people, puppy play dates...yuck.

I liked the idea of the GSD personality. Aloof...somewhat of a one person dog. Perfect for my personality. We will be great partners.

I did expose and socialize but it was done my way, it was casual & part of my life already. He was my tag-a-long for any errand. We explored together. Love getting him outside to climb, jump, crawl low, balance, etc. My husband would build obstacle courses for him in the yard with whatever was laying around, so much fun. Those moments when he wasn't sure...encouraging him, building that confidence. You are a rock star puppy

I took him to the gun range several times...my husband was already there. He sat and watched, interested.

Sure he met strangers & children along the way. He learned to ignore other dogs in class - gets to romp around sometimes with my neighbors awesome dog.

We are active and love to be outdoors hiking & camping. He runs with my husband.

But sometimes I just want to stay home with my sweats on and have a down day to watch movies under the blanket all day, do nothing. It was important that I had a dog that would accept down time and not need to be entertained and on the go all the time. I have that with Rusty and I think it's because I just kept it simple with 'raising' him...if you will.
Hello! I know this is an old thread, but SO informative. I am much like you - I am somewhat of an introvert, and enjoy my privacy.When I go out with my current dog (not a GSD), he gets a lot of attention due to the rarity of his breed where I live, plus his good looks. But I make him sit to get petted briefly. I don't allow anyone to fall all over him. My last shepherd would just sit and ignore my neighbors when I would encounter them on a walk, and they didn't try to pet her. When I get my next GSD pup, that is what I will prefer-quiet acceptance and basically ignore other people. I love a "one person dog". All that lovey-dovey socialization is not my cup of tea.
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post #200 of 207 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 08:10 PM
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In my time spent in rather "ancient" cultures, the way dogs are treated is vastly different than in the pet culture of the western world. It is a myth that people of the middle east do not like dogs. Many have them as pets, and the herding and nomadic tribes utilize dogs for work and companionship. In Korea, there are many dogs that live in the city and move freely along the streets with their owners. You see litters of puppies hanging out in front of stores, or in some alley.

These dogs are raised as part of life. They are not fawned over by every passer by. Most people notice them little more than they would a discarded food wrapper or group of children playing a game of stones. The dogs reciprocate this "normalcy" of life, in that they don't seek attention from every passer by either. Unless they are hungry and you are offering food, they don't even respond when enticed to interact.

The herding dogs will protect their flock and family with their lives. They put on a big display if you come too near, and will attempt to drive you off if necessary. If you turn to leave, they fall back into normal life, in control of themselves and the situation with no guidance from their family. Many times you will see a very young child, 8-10 years old, by themselves in the mountains with the flock, accompanied only by a pair of dogs to watch over them. Vegetation is so sparse that the flock must continually move to feed itself. The child knows the route of movement to take that will bring the flock through the most fertile areas and back to the village in a few days. The dogs maintain flock integrity and provide warning and protection to the flock and the shepherd alike.

These same dogs, who will drive you off if they encounter you in the mountains, reside calmly in the village when they are home. They are not contained and know the rules of living with people and other animals. They are calm and obedient to their owners, but in a general way. They understand normalcy and fit in to life because they are a part of real life from the time they are born, not some orchestrated and condensed socialization plan that overstimulates them.

In places where dogs are not a big deal, are not fawned over and are not put under pressure to be something unnatural to their genetic temperament, dogs successfully integrate into daily life without pause. They learn through observation and regular routine what is expected of them and how to behave. Their job is much like that of the people who choose to have them as partners. They fill the voids in their group and strive to help where they are asked. They will chase down a chicken for the evening meal, escort a toddler to the river to fetch water, fight off a pack of coyotes and bark when an unfamiliar face shows up on the horizon. No training DVDs required.

I think we trainers could benefit from being put in a down stay and being forced to observe dogs behaving well until we are calm
I currently live in Costa Rica, where there are many many street dogs; they trot around downtown, appear to know how to cross the streets without getting run over, and never make a nuisance of themselves. Most of the dogs in the main part of downtown are fed scaps by people, and don't appear starving (unlike all the strays in the country!). Many of the locals have pet dogs who follow them around town unleashed, but they follow their folks and never run off. The locals are not known as being dog lovers, but their dogs are very well behaved! It is somewhat of a mystery to me!
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