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"Bringing him home" dilemma

3K views 38 replies 21 participants last post by  alexg 
#1 ·
We've got a deposit on our pup and are DYING to bring him home! However, we definitely want what's best for him and are faced with a minor problem. He's 4 1/2 weeks right now (born 12/7/13).

I was just texting with the breeder (not true breeders BTW, but they had a litter with their two GSDs) and she mentioned she was thinking of letting the pups go home to their owners around 6 weeks. I've read enough on the forums here to know that 8 weeks seems to be the minimum, and law in some areas, for socialization. (Looked it up, it is not law here unless they are licensed breeders/store, etc)

She said the pups have all had their teeth come in and bit mom enough during feeding that she won't feed them anymore. She said the pups are eating a mix of soft, solid food/puppy formula, and are playing with their littermates and cuddle well with the people in the house.

I told her we'd like to keep him there until he's 8 weeks, but if she lets all the others go at 6 weeks and he's the last one there, will that be good for him? Should we just bring him home once he's the last one left?

I learned some valuable things a bit late, unfortunately, including buying from a reputable breeder, having parents tested (health problems/history?), etc. Didn't know about that until after we put our deposit down. So, all that said, it is what it is. Supposedly, both mom and dad are full-blood, registered, and Luger will have papers. I do NOT know if the parents have been medically tested for problems, unfortunately. That's behind us now and we can't do anything about it- we'll just love Luger no matter what.

 
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#2 ·
Huge red flag on the breeder not wanting to raise the pups because mom is now weaning them(and that is the normal age for pups to start weaning) I'd get my deposit back if possible. If the breeder isn't making any effort in keeping the puppies clean and well nourished from 5-8 weeks, what else is the breeder shortcutting on. :(
In many states it is illegal to sell pups before 8 weeks of age. I wouldn't support this "breeder"
 
#4 ·
Can't get the deposit back. I wrote up a contract for both of us. Well, realistically, I probably could. They're a very nice family. They are taking care of the dogs as well; not worried about that.

This was their first litter that just, kind of, happened. They weren't expecting it.

I can appreciate the disdain for BYBs and I wouldn't have agreed to buy from one had I known all of the issues with them beforehand (found this site too late), but it is what it is. I get regular photos from them and he always looks well taken care of. They have offered for us to stop by any time we'd like.

So, backing out isn't an option. They are more than willing to keep the pup longer, to the full 8 weeks. I just need some help with my concerns about the other pups being released earlier. Thanks. :eek:
 
#3 ·
Agree with Jane... I'd run fast. The "breeder" (and yes, even if they have two pet dogs they want to throw together, that makes them breeders) doesn't follow the law because they're not licensed? This is a great example with what's wrong with the "licensing"... BYB's won't follow the rules anyways. This is not someone you should be giving money to. If any problems arise in the future with the pup, you can count on these people offering zero support or help.
 
#6 ·
Agree with Jane... I'd run fast. The "breeder" (and yes, even if they have two pet dogs they want to throw together, that makes them breeders) doesn't follow the law because they're not licensed? This is a great example with what's wrong with the "licensing"... BYB's won't follow the rules anyways. This is not someone you should be giving money to. If any problems arise in the future with the pup, you can count on these people offering zero support or help.
I seriously doubt they're even aware of any laws like that. I truly believe they are trying to do things right. I never even knew there were laws like that. I looked it up and there is no applicable law, in this instance, where I live though.

I have, however, been burned on judging people in the past!! :eek: **grumbles under breath about a lying, fraudulent insurance adjuster/company**
 
#5 ·
Maybe YOU could educate them a little on why it's in the puppies best interest to stay together, atleast until 7 weeks of age..It's only an extra week, and you'd be giving them a little bit of an education as well:)

I think some want to unload them early because frankly, at this age, they are starting to become really messy, and it's ALOT of work, feeding, keeping their area's clean etc..
 
#7 ·
Thank you! That's what I tried to pass on to her. Told her of the socialization aspect of it. That's when she mentioned how well they play together and interact with people. Probably doesn't mean much at this point I'm guessing!

I'll do what I can to see if she can at least keep the others around for another week. Thank you for the advice. :)
 
#8 ·
ahh yes, and I'd tell her it's illegal to sell under 8 wk old puppies.. Even 7 weeks is better than six,,forgot to say the puppy is adorable:)
 
#9 ·
I took a puppy home early once. He was 6 weeks or maybe younger. His eyes were still blue. I didn't know better. He is basically a good dog. I don't know if this was from bringing him home early or just how he is, but the problems he has are:

severe separation anxiety. He is alot better now, but he would go crazy if we left him with anyone else. He was ok at his own house. We went on a cruise and left him and Cloey with my parents. He destroyed their blinds trying to get out and slept basically on top of her whining all night for the first 3 nights. I felt terrible. He is better at being left now though.

He refuses to share toys. He is very possessive of all toys except bones. THis was not a problem until we got the GSD. Cloey only likes bones. The GSD likes everything and there have been a few fights, but it's getting better.

He doesn't really like playing with other dogs. He likes to play alone or with us, but not other dogs.

He is a wonderful dog though.
 
#10 ·
If she refuses to keep them til 8 wks, try for at least 7 wks. The longer the better, but some people have their mind made up. They are more work after 5 wks of age, that is why people want to dump them with buyers as quickly as possible. I would keep all my litters til 12 wks, but people want them at 8wks.
 
#11 ·
Thanks everyone!

She's already said they'd be happy to keep him till he's 8 weeks, so we'll go with that! Definitely want to avoid the separation anxiety if at all possible! Sound like that's a handful, trcy!

Just sent her another text saying the consensus is to keep them till they are at least 8 weeks, it's best for all the puppies. If I can work in the fact that 8 weeks is law in most places I certainly will. :)
 
#29 ·
Thanks everyone!

She's already said they'd be happy to keep him till he's 8 weeks, so we'll go with that! Definitely want to avoid the separation anxiety if at all possible! Sound like that's a handful, trcy!

Just sent her another text saying the consensus is to keep them till they are at least 8 weeks, it's best for all the puppies. If I can work in the fact that 8 weeks is law in most places I certainly will. :)
Just wanted to comment on this, I tend to agree that 6 is on the younger side, but I don't think it's going to create issues that wouldn't come up anyways.

To the part in bold: I tend to think that nerve issues, seperation anxiety, etc...are for more an effect from genetics than leaving the litter a week or two early. Please don't think that the extra week is going to save you from temperament problems down the road. Most nerve, anxiety, fear, issues are genetic, and those genetics seem to be more prevalent in these type of "breeder" situations. Not saying you will have to deal with these issues, but the chances you will are high.

So just be aware, and train/expose accordingly...but don't think a week or two extra is going to improve the pup's temperament or make him not have separation anxiety, it will be what it is. I think a lot of people get caught up in the cute tiny puppy, and can't imagine fear/anxiety issues in a 6/7/8 month old or 1 year old dog. It is very difficult. Hopefully you won't have to deal with that, though. Good luck!
 
#12 ·
#20 ·
I brought my pup home at 6 weeks. He's completely fine, no separation anxiety. My new addition who was allowed to go home only at 8 weeks because she was from a much better breeder (I got her at 2.5 years old) has terrible separation anxiety...so please, unless you have data that uses a huge segment of the population, do not scare people with things you've read online that have no basis except for an author's own experience.

If she's releasing the other dogs at 6 weeks, its probably better for you to get yours at 6 weeks as well. The point of him being at the breeder is more for socialization with the pups and less about the mom. She'll be around, but at that point not doing that much for the pups.
 
#25 ·
One of the soundest dogs I ever had was a Czech male whose litter I brought to live with me at 4 weeks. I took all but 2 pups who stayed with the breeder. Long story as to all the "whys" of it. The point is, with good human input and sane, sound adult dogs around to teach the pups the ropes, there is no concrete reason to say a puppy who goes home at 6 weeks is doomed. The anecdotal stories of nutjob dogs who happened to go home early can just as easily be attributed to the BYB idiot breeders and their wackjob dogs- ie, GENETICS.

The law is 8 weeks for SHIPPING. It's not 8 weeks for all adoptions in all states. Many, many informed trainers insist on getting theirs at 49 days. For myself, it depends on where the pup is- do I want it out of there ASAP before someone on the property screws it up royally, or do I leave it until 8 weeks?

My guess is this pup is not going to learn much in the way of valuable socialization left in this environment. I'd never have bought this pup to begin with, but I don't think if the OP takes it home at 6 weeks vs. 8 it's going to be any more screwed up than it may have been anyway. Remember, they learn bad as well as good from their dam, so unless the dam is amazing, I'd get that pup out of there, whether at 6 weeks or 8 or whatever. 7 would be my preference, personally.

If you simply must buy this puppy despite knowing better, and you think the pup will be ok if left there a little longer, then see if they'll keep them 7 weeks.

Right now, I've got 8 7 week old pups in a kennel in my KITCHEN because the weather is so insane. Trust me, I understand why a lazy person would want to get rid of them once mom is no longer taking care of them. What a mess- a very loud, very time-consuming, MESS! :D But if you want what's best for them, you do what you gotta do. ;)
 
#26 ·
7-8 weeks is best but I don't think 6 is killer, especially not if all the other pups are going home around 6 weeks and if the OP is determined to get this particular puppy. Personally I wouldn't want to start potty training a really young puppy and since I work, I either have to come home or pay someone which means 4-5 hours holding it and a really young baby just can't, so 7.5-9 weeks has been good for me. I've gotten pups (not all mine, some to start raising for someone else) at 7, 9, 7, 8, and 9 weeks and none had any issues with bite inhibition, socialization, or separation anxiety and I've never had a dog go through a marked "fear" period. I have multiple adult dogs at home that are amazing with "helping". They range from being very playful and interacting with the puppies to being totally aloof and neutral to not liking pups much but being very fair with corrections and warnings. I think they are very valuable, as well as all the socialization I am doing, bringing the puppy to new places almost daily. They tag along to my other dogs' training, family get-togethers, visit my office, flyball tournaments.

The rules about 8 weeks often only apply to brokers and pet stores and are more to protect state sales tax than they were put in place for the good of the puppy.
 
#27 ·
We got our pup from my friend who's dogs bred, and we took him home about 7.5 weeks old, he has been pretty much perfect, excellent temperament, no separation anxiety, fear etc, he's now a very stable, calm, friendly and loving 6month old pup ? but when we brought him home, he had my brothers 2.5yr old staffy to play with and that helped out tons with the bite inhibition so he wasn't after our feet so much! I say take the pup home at 6 weeks if all the other pups have gone, if not keep the pup there longer. Have you got any other friendly adult dogs your pup could socialise with before all the vacs etc?


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#28 ·
The fact that the breeder wants to move the pups early is the issue for me, because mom won't take care of them? The breeder sounds ignorant to me, and I would not want to support it.

Those of you that know how to raise a puppy, great, it is wonderful that you have knowledge to set the puppy up for success.

But you are in the minority. It doesn't always bode well for the ones that choose the wrong breeder then try to manage a puppy with poor genetics(not saying this case is what it is)

If you do take this puppy early, it isn't the end of the world, but remember that you are supporting a breeder that is not breeding for the right reasons. If this was indeed an oops litter, I sure hope it is the last.
 
#30 ·
I think some people think that once puppies are weaned they should go home. The mother may be done with them earlier or later but the litter should stay together 7-8 weeks.

I don't get that they aren't "true breeders" because it's an oops litter. They may not be good breeders, but when you have two intact dogs and aren't diligent...you get a litter!
 
#31 · (Edited)
Still here, still reading the replies coming in. Thanks again. :)

You all, obviously, have a great more deal of experience at this than I do. I'm new to this so I am just going to have to learn from it.

Someone asked if we have another dog in the house. Yes, we have a Chihuahua...more my wife's dog...I wouldn't be "too" upset if Luger ate her. KIDDING!! Kidding!! :p

She was pretty good with our Beagle when we had him. (RIP Poky) :( She missed him quite a bit when he passed.
 
#32 ·
I think it's good you have another dog in the house, good luck with the new addition,,we do insist on pictures when the time comes:)
 
#34 ·
If the breeder is open to it, and if you have time, maybe make up some puppy packs with information for the new buyers. It'll help pass the time! Or is the breeder doing something already?
 
#36 ·
Not sure if the breeder is doing anything, but I didn't think to ask either. I've been doing most of my own research and whatnot, which is what led me here. Unfortunately, we'll just miss the new Puppy training class by a week or two, so we'll have to get in the next one. :hammer:

Good idea!
 
#35 ·
This isn't wholly applicable, but I've bottle fed a range of kittens. Single kittens with no littermates are fierce, evil adults with no bite inhibition, even when we've played 'rough' and corrected biting activity during their development. Kittens bottle raised with even just a single sibling have all been wonderful adults with proper bite inhibition.

We had a litter of pitbulls come into the office because mom stopped feeding and was attacking and killing them at 4 weeks. Three of my coworkers took a pup each. Two were raised together and have wonderful manners. One was raised solo and is a heathen.

There is no distinct advantage of keeping a litter WITH MOM after 6 weeks. There is a huge advantage keeping puppies with their littermates, however.
 
#37 ·
Wow, a couple of great, informative examples. Thanks for taking the time to post those!

Will more replies here now, I think I will plan on leaving Luger with her as long as the littermates are there and bring him home once he's the last one. When I talked to her a week or so back (prior to this last conversation we're all discussing now), it sounded like she still had a couple of pups unsold. That may all have changed by now, but maybe there's a shot there'd be another pup or two still around. I know she mentioned they may keep one. I'll find out more when I can.

For now, I've got a trip in the morning and need to get packing. Have a great night, folks!
 
#38 ·
I don't know what your deposit was and admit I didn't read all the responses to your post, but... any deposit is just a drop in the bucket on what you will spend responsibly raising a GSD pup.

A pup with health issues can end up being a very expensive pet.

There are no guarantees on pups, but weighing odds in your favor by using a breeder with known good practices helps.

Good luck whatever, but be forewarned and ready to save for future health expenses.
 
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