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Old 01-22-2013, 09:09 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Goodness, this sounds just like Puppy when she was young. She would break skin with frustration too. In classes, she would either be too worked up to settle during instruction, or would bark/whine very loudly.

What worked for me is going to class 30-40 minutes early, making sure I had lots of time so I didn't seem rushed. Find another place in the building that is enclosed but can still hear some commotions from class, and stay there with her for the 30 minutes so she can settle down and contain the emotions that were worked up during out 30 minute walk over.

I have next to 0 experience with dogs though, so just sharing.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:10 PM   #52 (permalink)
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i had this with 2 pups i was raising at different times. each one got super bored at training classes for puppy and basic obedience.. barking, acting a fool, not listening, etc.. all the things your Grim is doing.. i was MORTIFIED at classes ... felt sooo embarrassed.. my trainer figured out the dogs in question were bored, once they learned the command they were done and wanting to move on. the more i stayed in the class the more the pups each acted out... so the trainer suggested we up to the next level and also start teaching some service commands (more mental exercise and upping the training) so that the pups couldnt get bored fast as we were learning twice as much in class and doing more mental exercise... some dogs are just so smart that once they get a command they are done, move on and hit the next level.. some dogs dont mind taking the slower classes... they are more lets hang and chill types... sounds like Grim is a lets get up an go type of pup, and between hitting that magical butthead stage at 6 months and being super smart he might be bored at puppy classes. normally puppy classes are for 2 months to 4 months, then 4 months is basic obedience.. depending on the trainers..my one dog was only in puppy classes for one month of training, then we did basic obedience at 4 months old then went to more mind training ,then next level then therapy training , agility then therapy again (a year and a half nonstop 3 nights a week lol)... he got super bored super fast- once he learned a command he was done, move on to the next one... maybe grim needs a higher level of training and no more puppy classes.... one of my dogs i actually stopped doing classes for a few months and we just did nothing but playing (sit for ball, down for stick etc still obedience training but not regimented and more fun like to break things up) once i did that an gave obedience classes a break for a fewmonths when we went back to class her attention was even better then before..

if his nose is always in the ground try tracking for now, its mental and physical exercise an might be a better outlet for his energy... dogs that normally excel at tracking are the ones that always have their noses buried in the ground....
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:27 PM   #53 (permalink)
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The tracking book I ordered should be here by Friday. He's not in puppy kindergarten, we skipped that one. He's in a foundation class. I'd give him that he was bored, but he doesn't know it all yet. I waited on training him on anything but 'sit' and 'down' because I didn't want to mess him up for IPO. I've always thought he'd like tracking because he's always done every walk without looking up, BUT again I didn't want to mess it up for IPO. I've never taught a dog tracking. Since I read it's easier to 'catch a dog up' than to undo bad or incorrect training... we waited. The move made the wait longer, but I really do like where he's going. The class isn't too slow moving. It was a busy time with minimal "sit and listen" time. I was watching this guy in the class who's a helper in training at the club I am going to go to. How his dog was acting is what I want out of Grim. Quick to react, always looking at the handler, eager to do, etc. I don't know the ages of the other dogs, but I do believe Grim may be on the younger side. He seems to 'get' everything VERY quickly, but it means nothing if he can't do it outside of the house. It was clear in about ten seconds that my boy was miles away from the other dogs in terms of being able to focus on me, or caring what I wanted him to do. I didn't see that at home... but at home there's nothing more interesting going on at the time. We have work to do. It's not the instructor's problem at all. She gave me tips of things to work on. I'm actually thinking about doing some private instruction with her on the side to try to get him past this if the other stuff doesn't help.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:37 PM   #54 (permalink)
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and what will you do if he just doesnt want to do IPO? sometimes, we see goals for our dogs and ourselves in one venue, and we try for that, but its always possible the calling for the dog isnt what we had in mind in the first place... just to keep in mind, its possible that IPO is not Grims calling, and maybe he would excel in something else.... i wanted my one dog to do fantastic at agility,i had all sorts of dreams of competing etc... we took agility classes twice a week, i practiced with her and practiced , at home , in the park, at class,..... one day a friend of mine was with me and her and while i was talking about our agility classes she asked if she could see us in action.. i was able to rent the local training facility (anyone can rent it there are 3 agility rings, one inside, 2 outside and you have access to sheep too for herding) and while we were at the facility doing our agility my friend when we were done said to me, maybe you should think about something else, she doesnt show the enthusiasm for the equipment , she is doing it for you, but she isnt showing that spark... it took a neutral person to open my eyes that my dog didnt like it,she was just doing it for me.... we did it a few more times to finish out the class, then we stopped .. even the trainer at the end said she wasnt having a good time, and for agility dogs having a good time was the key to them loving agility.. so we dabbled until we found what she loved to do... then that she did with gusto ....

all i am saying after rambling is maybe Grim might not want to be an IPO dog, maybe his future with you is doing some other type of sport...
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:39 PM   #55 (permalink)
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are you going to a place in MI? Or more local? Maybe the guy(helper in training) can give you some tips as well as the instructor.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:43 PM   #56 (permalink)
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How come you're not training with the IPO helper/instructor at this point? I don't do Schutzhund, I'm getting a pup from some club members that do, and their dogs are definitely what you've described that you want. They start working extremely early with their dogs (they just had a litter and have a 13 week old) and that dog has amazing focus and starting obedience.

For someone with that goal in mind (I personally don't want/need that) you should be working with people that know how to get that out of their dogs. I'm not sure why you've started so late, but you have so I wouldn't expect that kind of obedience at this point. You'll probably be quite behind some of those dogs until the light bulb finally goes off in Grim and you also start working him the way Schutzhund people work their dogs.

By the way...the goals you have are awesome. I love watching that kind of focus and obedience, I just don't have the want to get it out of my own dog. But from training a dog for the first time for any kind of trialing, I can tell you that until you fully commit and start working with the people that will help you get there, your dog won't get to the level you want.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:46 PM   #57 (permalink)
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I'm going to Northfield in Michigan. You know, yesterday I was sure that Grim was just dying to meet/play with the other dogs without malice. Now, I'm not so sure. Maybe he was trying to start something, or at least let the other dogs know that he was the king. I'm used to him strutting around like he walks on water, but maybe now he's trying to let other dogs know it. It seems like overnight someone took my puppy and exchanged him for another puppy. I've never seen such a dramatic, sudden change in a dog. He's being to lippy and pushy towards me, even. He still does what I want him to do, but LOUDLY. Honestly, I've never had a dog stare down another one except in play... so with me being preoccupied with trying to get him to be quiet and pay attention to me I may have missed bad intentions on his part. He was quick to correct the dog that barked at another one.

The person in charge of the SchH club I plan to go to recommended this class in particular. To put a foundation for IPO on him. They can't train a total blank slate at the club, I think it would be detrimental time wise. He's late because I couldn't find a decent trainer where I was at, then we moved, then the holidays...so here we are. Prior to Grim turning into a maniac, I could get him to sit and down in the middle of Petsmart or on walks or where ever. He walked past dogs all the time without giving them the time of day. I'd stop for a meet a lot of times to make sure he was still OK with other dogs. He was always fine, but not overly interested. Like I said, this past weekend was the first time I'd seen him act this way. I've always trained my own dogs in the past, but I never had the goal of doing IPO, so how and when I trained them wasn't such a big deal.

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Old 01-22-2013, 09:48 PM   #58 (permalink)
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How hungry was he when you went to class? I would use a very high value food, have him a bit hungry and also have a ball on a rope or a tug to help him learn to engage you and stop thinking about everything else.

I would be working on focus in many different locations and under a lot of distractions.

Hopefully the weather will cooperate this weekend and you can meet with the club.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:56 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag View Post
The person in charge of the SchH club I plan to go to recommended this class in particular. To put a foundation for IPO on him. They can't train a total blank slate at the club, I think it would be detrimental time wise.
That's so ridiculous...sorry but it would take them 20 minutes to show you the type of obedience you should be working on with him at this age (and even earlier). I've incorporated a lot of "Schutzhund style" obedience into my obedience training and it takes 5 seconds for those people to give me a hint at how to train what it is I want...be it a solid go out, fast recall, perfect front. I wouldn't expect them to work with you for hours...no dog can take hours of obedience...but they should be able to teach you how they train their dogs from day one.

Like I've stated...the people that I know that do it...started with their puppy before she was even 8 weeks old. At 8 weeks old her littermates went to their homes and they really dove into training. They're already doing prey work, and a lot of obedience...all things that I plan on doing with my next dog...I also only started "hardcore" obedience at 6 months with my current dog and I can definitely see how it has set him back time wise.

I'm not trying to bad mouth the trainer or the club...just seems completely opposite of what I've seen from competitive obedience people in every venue. People that want to get UDX start at 8 weeks, people that want to do agility start at 8 weeks, people that do herding get their dogs out there at 8 weeks...its just weird that this club doesn't think they can help you at this point in your and Grim's training.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:58 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Hi, Lisa! I'd have thought he was hungry, as he didn't eat at all before the class. We're going to start taking many, many trips to different places. He has such a love for cheese that I thought that would be the ticket. It wasn't. I got this meat lick stick that he loves, but that didn't hold under distraction, either. I'm going with steak pieces next week. The hot dog piece Adele gave me worked better than the cheese, but he was still distracted. I'm just glad he wasn't trying to take off after the other dogs, even when off lead. He just stood next to her for a few seconds... like "Hi, mom.. why are you over there? I'll just hang with this cool lady, OK?"
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