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One down,, other one MIA

2K views 29 replies 10 participants last post by  Lilie 
#1 ·
My GSD has an undescended testicle... he is four months old... my breeder recommended a surgical fix, so I can have the option to show him.... she said do it soon or it'll be too late... do any of you know about such things? Advice and opinions greatly appreciated.
 
#2 ·
You can't show him if he's got one undescended. That is a major disqualifying fault.
You only show in conformation if he's going to be bred, and a dog who is undescended should not be bred.
 
#6 ·
Using surgical means to bring down a testicle just so you can show would not be ethical. If you want to keep your dog intact for other reasons then I would look into it.

This dog should NOT be bred.
 
#7 ·
No, you show to see how your dog meets the standard. It doesn't matter if he's not going to be bred. He's a "pet quality" dog and not "breeding/show quality".

Using surgical means to bring down a testicle just so you can show would not be ethical.
Just a question - CAN they do that??

It is my understanding that even if the testicle was brought into place it's still not a developed testicle.
It would be removed surgically and thrown away, to reduce the chance of cancer, the other testicle could be left in place if desired but then again, the dog should not be bred.
 
#8 ·
I am going to keep him intact for at least two years, regardless... This was a recommendation from my breeder.... as for being a "pet quality" dog... I'd like to think of him as being a bit more than that... I am going to do all I can with him... looking into shutzhund,, but having very little luck getting hold of the local clubs,, closest I've come is private training at $75 a session... agility and S&R also appeal to me... I want to have as much fun as I can and raise Yoschi to his full potential... :)
 
#9 ·
"Pet quality" is appearances only. That is, not a desirable dog for breeding or showing.
MOST of us on the forum have pet quality dogs and that's fine. They aren't physically or mentally impaired, it simply means they aren't going anywhere in the show ring.
 
#10 ·
Agree with Lisa and msvette2u.

You need two to show - judge checks that along with teeth, etc. If you artificially make the other one descend in order to show, that is ok if you are only doing it for fun - however, if I am going to get nitpicky, this is technically cheating. You have surgically altered your non-show worthy dog in order to show and get a show rating. This dog should *NOT* be bred. He has a genetic fault. Surgically altering that for health and a prerequisite to show for fun is ok, but again, this is NOT a breed worthy dog - sorry. If you had a clause for this in your contract, you may be owed compensation. Otherwise, just enjoy the dog.
 
#11 ·
It's cheating to surgically change a dog so that it can show despite a disqualifying fault.

You can show your dog right now and would probably be fine. Many judges will waive problems with teeth and testicles on a dog this young because the puppy classes are not exactly deciding the world Sieger, and things can change.
 
#12 ·
Could the OP 'show' in Rally, or Agility or another AKC sanctioned venue as long as it's NOT conformation type classes?
 
#14 ·
Yet another reason to hate the showline side of german shepherds...

You're missing one ball but can still perform your work perfectly, yet you become a "pet" because your appearance isn't perfect. Let's breed the fearful show dog that looks perfect but not the perfect temperament dog missing one ball. Did you know that to show a dog, it can win and still have crippling diseases? There was a cocker spaniel- type dog in the UK that one the show and had a disease that was common among cocker spaniels and can cause a tremendous amount of pain...after winning the show, that dog sired 34 litters!! I wonder how many of those puppies ended up with the inherited disease????

This is why German Shepherds in the show ring look so messed up and opposite of the original German Shepherds..,the upper class in Britain started breeding for the "best looking dog" and didn't work their dogs and in bred to keep the desired outside appearance.

After a well respected member mentioned this a few years back, I researched it extensively and I find the people who breed showline dogs without temperament testing or titling in "REAL" tests, such as herding or schH disgusting. If your dogs only title is for his physical appearance, why does that make him breedworthy?

Please correct me if I am wrong.....

PS> I think breeders like Huerta Hof are the absolute BEST because they breed for everything!!! Appearance, working abilities, etc.
 
#16 ·
You're missing one ball but can still perform your work perfectly, yet you become a "pet" because your appearance isn't perfect.
It was just stated the dog can still perform in AKC sanctioned events and get titled. It just can't be shown in Conformation classes. Nor should it be bred.

I would think the percentage of folks who have titled dogs and breed them as well is very small.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Oh brother....you have a lot to learn :rolleyes:
Your post is rude and misguided to say the least.

ANY LINE is not supposed to be bred if the dog only has one testicle. Work, show, in between...doesn't matter. One or no testicles descending is a genetic fault regardless of breed - these dogs should never be bred. It has NOTHING to do with a show rule...

Same goes for missing teeth, allergies, digestive issues - these dogs should not be bred because they are genetically UNHEALTHY. It is NOT a cosmetic issue or a point of vanity...it has to do with taking indications of genetic issues into consideration and NOT passing these traits on.
 
#17 ·
Wow. Where to begin?
1) I don't even think the OP has an American showline
2) there's a ton of very nice Am Showline dogs out there and even here on this board
3) it doesn't matter if this is a WORKING, German Show, American show, or American MUTT, any boy with an undescended testicle needs to be d/qed.
4) This isn't an issue particular to any line, it can happen to any dog, mutt, purebred, etc.
5) any dog temperamentally unsound should not be bred (regardless of breed/line)
6) What makes you so sure this particular dog has a stellar temperament or good conformation??
7) just as many German showlines have horrid backs with too much roach, it is an irony to call Am Show "sloping backs" when the reason they appear that way is the way they are stacked...

I could go on. But you get the point.
 
#20 ·
Oh yes, that "documentary" (full of agenda) where they found one of the typey-iest show dogs out there with some of the poorest handling and used that to condemn the entire breed worldwide.
 
#22 ·
Any dog of any age entered in regular AKC conformation class for championship points MUST have two descended testicles in the scrotum. Puppy classes do not matter, nor does age, the puppy will be disqualified if he goes into the ring with only one testicle.
There is a new 4-6 puppy beginner puppy competition being held at some shows, but there are no points awarded towards Championships, so while they will not be disqualified, they do not get a chance towards points, it is for Certificates of Merit. Again, no points for Championships, so gives puppies ring experience.
Any alteration to improve a dog including surgeries to "fix" something is illegal according to AKC rules.
Bringing a testicle down into the scrotum can be done, but the testicle is dead and won't rejunvinate its sperm. It would be a very prolonged invasive surgery, it would be abdominal surgery to find the testicle, try to stretch the cord or implant a ligament in its place to stretch it into the scrotum. The ring would be already closed, so that would also have to be cut and the testicle pulled through.
It would also be very very unethicalof ANY vet to do this so the dog could show. There are vets that do anything for money, however these vets are not exactly what I call ethical.
There is a shot that young puppies can be given before 12 weeks old, it is very painful and takes three or four shots to try it. I admit I did it one time for a puppy because he was going to be a spectacular show dog, that puppy cried and screamed during the 1cc shot in the muscle. I beat myself up about it, I had no idea it was so painful, just because I wanted him to be a show dog. He never got another shot, the testicle never did come down, he was neutered and became a very special pet.
Enjoy your dog
 
#24 ·
Any dog of any age entered in regular AKC conformation class for championship points MUST have two descended testicles in the scrotum. Puppy classes do not matter, nor does age, the puppy will be disqualified if he goes into the ring with only one testicle.
There is a new 4-6 puppy beginner puppy competition being held at some shows, but there are no points awarded towards Championships, so while they will not be disqualified, they do not get a chance towards points, it is for Certificates of Merit. Again, no points for Championships, so gives puppies ring experience.
If the OP wants to try SV shows he can probably get away with it for a few more months. SV shows start at 3 months of age and since very little is expected of a 3-6 month old puppy and no one is making breeding decisions at that age, judges will usually allow an undescended testicle and/or faulty bites (or won't even check the bite) at a club level show. The dog may not be given a rating b/c of the testicle but probably wouldn't be excused, so if the OP wanted to show their dog once or twice for fun it could be done.
 
#26 ·
Our herding trainer's beauceron is a monorchid. The dog is a fantastic dog - but his owner will never breed him, regardless of how great a herding dog he is. It is a genetic condition, not something that should be passed down to future generations.

Is he a "pet" in the terms of not working/competing? No - but if it's either pet or breeding quality - he is NOT breeding quality!
 
#27 ·
FTR, I say "pet quality" because in breeder's terms, the dog is sold either as "show quality" or "pet quality", meaning if a show quality dog, the dog is guaranteed to have two testicles.
Anything that would disqualify a dog from the show ring, will make it a "pet quality".

That doesn't say anything about the dog's working ability or personality/traits, etc., other than he's not going to win in a show ring.

The dog could be a stunning representation of a GSD in all aspects, but with the undescended testicle, should be bred by any ethical breeder.
 
#28 ·
Anyone who thinks a missing testicle will prevent the dog from training and competing at a high level, just Google "Eric vom Sportpark" :)
 
#30 ·
Will only having one testicle make him an 'unbalanced' dog?

Sorry....I tried, but couldn't stop myself.
 
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