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New York law

6K views 44 replies 18 participants last post by  selzer 
#1 ·
So my gf received a call from the shelter where she adopted her dog. They told her that her dog needed to be neutered by one year of age, and that NYS required this. If not done, her dog would be seized. What a joke. What happened to being a responsible dog owner and doing what you feel is best? Or at least waiting until it's fully grown.
Anyone else heard of this?
 
#4 ·
Heard of it. Mandatory spay/neuter laws are very popular among the anti-breeder movement. Very much supported by the HSUS and PETA. I think it was the HSUS CEO that said "One generation and out" as far as domestic animals go. Extinction is their goal.

But one has to wonder what a shelter in a mandatory spay/neuter area was doing when it allowed an dog to leave the shelter without being neutered.
 
#21 ·
I disagree.

Intact does not mean the dog will be bred. Intact and in the hands of an irresponsible owner, maybe. I think what owners should be doing is gauging what they are willing and able to do to prevent an oops litter. If they can handle an intact dog and are willing to take those precautions, fine. If they can't or don't want to, then alter.
 
#8 ·
I have never heard of a dog leaving a shelter unspayed or unneutered in New York! In case you didn't notice when you visited the shelter, they are chock full of unwanted dogs. This law exists in order to prevent more unwanted dogs being produced. This has nothing to do with "anti-breeder" forces. If I had a dollar for every person who has come on this forum to ask for help with an "Oops" litter, I have enough money to go to the shelter and adopt more dogs.
 
#9 ·
This is society's fault and the law is in place because there are way more irresponsible owners out there then most people would like to admit. I don't know of a shelter or rescue that releases a dog without being fixed. Not that long ago if they were under 6 months then it was in the contract they must be back by 6 months to be fixed, that changed along the way probably because people didn't do it and instead the shelters were taking back the same dogs with a liter of puppies. Now they are fixed at 8-12 weeks to solve that issue. Just look at the shelters and how overcrowded they are, imagine how many more there would be of these dogs weren't fixed? People found a way around it and the only ones that suffer are the thousands of pups put to sleep daily.
 
#10 ·
Not to get political, but I do disagree with mandatory laws saying what you can and cannot do. If that's the case, all dogs adopted should have mandatory training, owner education, and mandatory vet visits.
Specifically, her dog was 8 weeks old at adoption. He has no behavioral issues and he is fenced.
Make breeders licensed. It would cut down on a lot of issues. Fine bybs, and unlicensed breeders.
I personally feel the health benefits are huge to keeping intact.
Obviously she's going to follow the law, but it's sad that it's required by law.
At least let the dog develop fully.
And a dog does not need to be bred if it's intact.
 
#11 ·
Some shelters here are making training mandatory for some breeds, in fact they are even throwing it in for free trying to give the dog the best possible start. They are trying to stop the byb breeders by making it that dogs are fixed before they go home. They are fighting a losing battle.

Shelters do not have the money to supply all the things you think they should. They don't havecthe funding, the staff or the support to do so. Here you can adopt a dog for $100 and that includes shots, microchip and spay/neuter, what more are they suppose to do? They are overwhelmed and broke taking in what people are tossing out. Shelters here are begging for fosters and rescues because they are at capacity. Sadly a lot of dogs taking up space by no fault of their own are court/cruelty cases. They have to be held as evidence, leaving no room for all the others. It's a mess and it keeps getting worse.
 
#12 ·
Joke or not, if you adopted from a shelter then you were made aware of this at that point. It's rare they even allow dogs out the door before they are spayed or neutered. PA has the same laws and our local shelter will enforce it. They do it to stop more animals being born that they'll have to euthanize when they don't have space. They do it to protect the animals.

Sorry. Those are the facts. I'm not going to sugar coat this. I've pulled animals from shelters and I know how having to euthanize animals for space effects these people. So just spay and neuter per the law and shelter rules or go buy from a breeder.
 
#13 ·
I'm not against giving a dog a good start or attempts to control overpopulation. This shelter pulls dogs from down south, not locally. I've got nothing against shelters, and fully understand the hardships they encounter.
Its more about the state law.
In my opinion, they are going about things the wrong way. It doesn't stop dogs being dumped. It doesn't stop bybs of any breed.
 
#14 ·
Most shelters are funded by the government. States don't have enough money to fund getting more police officers, schools, social security, etc. there is nothing they can do that won't cost more money. This comes down to the people. The people make the choices to breed pets knowing how many are in shelters, puppy mill breeders make a choice and then treat the dogs like garbage, people make the choice to dump their dog in the shelters the minute something goes wrong, the people expect a dog to be trained and don't get that they have to do the training and the list can go on and on. It's the people. People know it's wrong but don't want to say anything, in fact they will say I know it's wrong but it's not any of my business then ooh and ahh over the cute puppies, you know the litter of 10 that just took homes away from 20 that were already here and got to witness how cruel and selfish people are.
 
#15 ·
There is a growing body of solid research that delaying (or even entirely deferring) spaying or neutering German shepherds (specifically) can come with considerable health and psychological benefits: New Research on Early Neutered German Shepherds and Joint Disorders | Some Thoughts About Dogs.


I understand the arguments on both sides of the issue; it's a tricky one to legislate and enforce, particularly with such a wide range of dog owners (responsible to wildly irresponsible).
 
#17 ·
We live in NY and I can understand why the rescues and shelters are doing this. We had had dogs from rescue shelters and never questioned its what you agree on when you get a dog from a rescue. I remember growing up I think so many people let their dogs loose dogs were mating in the streets male dogs camped in front of many houses for days. I remember wanting to bring home a few. It is why I have no trouble why the rescues and animal shelters require spaying and neutering. Breeders and even vets are not pushing for neutering much anymore which I have seen through out the years.

I had spoken to our breeder and she told us that when you get a dog license and your dog is not neutered/or spayed there is a extra fee involved which is suppose to go towards veterinarian clinics/hospitals for people who need monitory assistance in spaying and neutering there dog. I think a good idea. This is not the case though and the state is taking that money and using the money somewhere else but not for pets. This is the state of New Jersey she was referring about not sure about the other states.

I also heard that the state of New Jersey is trying to pass a law that before a person goes out to buy a dog from a breeder they must get a dog through a dog rescue before they buy one from a breeder. This law has not been passed but I heard they are trying to push it through. Has anyone heArd of this??? I understand wanting to rescue dogs but they should not push it upon people and make it seem getting a dog from a breeder is a selfish thing which I resent . there are other ways to help rescues out. we donate all the time to rescues that are Legit true rescues.
 
#18 ·
I know that more and more cities are putting ordinances in place that pet stores can not sell dogs from commercial breeders(puppy mills), all dogs must come from rescues/shelters.

And it looks like it's ber fought tooth and nail...


"The Puppy Mill Project assisted in drafting the city of Chicago’s retail pet sale ordinance, under which Chicago pet stores are no longer allowed to sell dogs, cats, or rabbits unless they are sourced from a shelter or rescue (this ordinance is currently being challenged in federal court). We also assisted with the Cook County Companion Animal and Consumer Protection Ordinance"
 
#20 · (Edited)
I know tons people of who live a few towns of away actually shut down a puppy pet store who sold puppies from a puppy mill. The puppy store who got puppies from a puppy mill (as no breeder would allow their pups sold in a pet store)was ran out of town by the towns people. It was a beautiful victory for that town and many should follow. That puppy pets store did not reopen anywhere else. The New Jersey state law that they are trying to get passed is prohibiting people to get pets from actual breeders not puppy mill slugs until they first require a dog from a rescue.
 
#22 ·
I am shocked the puppy was allowed to leave the shelter not neutered 8 weeks old or not. I adopted my hound mix as a puppy from a SC shelter. He was neutered at 8 weeks. He was adopted and returned. I adopted him at 12 weeks. I adopted my shepherd as a puppy from KY. She was 8 weeks, when I adopted her. She was spayed at 7 weeks.

I know that is harsh. Even my vet was like, "My gosh, I wish they hadn't spayed her so young. But - I understand why they did." My hound just turned 4 and my Shepherd is a few months shy of 2. So far, they are none the worse for wear. Don't know what the future holds, but no guarantees in life, right?
 
#23 ·
I was allowed to take Jax at 12 weeks BUT I had to take her directly to the vet AND my vet was in contact with the shelter to give a spay date. I literally had to call my vet from the front desk of the shelter and make the appt for her to be seen immediately. Doc sent a letter putting off the spay until she was 6 months.

Our shelter will adopt out, they do not have the funding to pay for medical, but a contract is signed to have the animals speutered in a certain amount of time or they will come get them. That is strictly enforced.
 
#24 ·
I had both of my adopted pups transported from other states. There is no way the shelters would have allowed me to adopt them unspeutered. Matter of fact, considering the number of unwanted dogs and puppies in those shelters, I doubt they would have allowed them out locally, either. I am not sure of the policies of shelters in my area, but I think it is rare for them to have puppies - especially young ones.
 
#26 · (Edited)
OP, Would you consider a vasectomy for a male or an ovary sparing spay for a female? Both procedures sterilize without loss of hormones. There is a still small but growing number of veterinarians who offer these procedures in the US.

There is an active FB group on the topic. It has a large number of files on the topic as well, incl. a list of clinics that offer the procedure.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/alternativealteringinfo/
 
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#27 ·
OP, Would you consider a vasectomy for a male or an ovary sparing spay for a female? Both procedures sterilize without loss of hormones. There is a still small but growing number of veterinarians who offer these procedures in the US.

There is an active FB group on the topic. It has a large number of files on the topic as well, incl. a list of clinics that offer the procedure.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/alternativealteringinfo/
I never knew this. Thanks, will look into it.
 
#32 ·
This is actually a great policy for a shelter in NY. They allowed your dog to get all the way to 12 months before requiring the dog to be spayed/neutered. That allows the dog's growth plates to close and to have his nads for growth and maturation. Nice. A lot of shelters will spay/neuter -- their vets -- lots of partial spays and material left behind in some of these places, and they do it before you pick your dog up. I mean, they do not do the operation, let the dog heal and then put it out for adoption, because they will be operating on dogs that will just be euthanized anyway. So, they wait until you pay the money, and then they tell you to pick the dog up tomorrow, sick from the surgery. Fine. Sometimes this is at 8 weeks of age. Not so fine.

Shelters are in a position of dealing with pets no one wants, and a lot of them do not get adopted and must be euthanized. For them to spay/neuter before they go to their new home, or to sell them on a spay/neuter contract is understandable, reasonable, acceptable. The alternative is just to euthanize them all. If you get a dog from a shelter or rescue, expect it to be altered, or to buy on that contract.

Most states have laws requiring state-run shelters to either spay/neuter all animals before selling them, or to require it to be done by a certain date.

Knowing the law is your responsibility. It is NOT a state-wide spay/neuter requirement, though there are some states that have tried that or are doing that, with only some exemptions. It is for dogs already landed on the public dime -- it is the right thing to do.

In the paperwork you received when you got the dog, there was probably a paper that was signed by your gf that agreed to the altering of the dog. I cannot believe you all did not sign this. Go back through the stuff.

If you made that agreement when you took the dog, or if you agreed to abide by the state laws with respect to the dog, than make an appointment and get your dog fixed. It IS the responsible thing to do, because you got your dog from a shelter or rescue.

Our shelter used to provide a voucher to people for altering their dog. Great right, they could let their pet get full grown and then alter it. So few people took advantage, and so many bitches were turned in that had been adopted out with that system, pregnant or with puppies, that they changed it to spay/neuter before you take it home. Not being responsible and doing what you agreed to do will hurt other dogs down the line, who will not be able to mature properly, being given pediatric spay/neuter because people simply will not abide by what they said they would do.

Fix your dog.
 
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#34 ·
The dog is going to be neutered like I said. If she missed something that agrees to neuter in the agreement with the shelter, that's fine. She's not arguing at all. I was just saying I disagree with the states law. It is a state law. That's all I was stating....
 
#36 ·
Its been like this for a long time. Shelters are funded through government, whether it's county, town or state. They have the right to make the laws since they are dealing with all the unwanted pets. Now we do pay axes which are most likely used for this funding, so it goes back to people that just don't care ruining it for everyone that does.
 
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#37 · (Edited)
If the government runs the shelter, then the government can make a law that dogs coming out of government run shelters must be altered, or must go on a spay/neuter agreement that will be enforced, that's perfectly ok, because the government owns those dogs. If you do not like the policy, do not buy your dog from the government. Easy. No one is forcing you to do anything.

For the government to make it mandatory for ALL dogs to be altered by 12 months -- that is a horrible law.

You see the difference. I can have you sign a paper agreeing to spay or neuter, or not to alter the pup until it x-months old. If you are not ok with that, you will go elsewhere to buy a dog. No problem. No one is forcing you. I do not make such requirements because I have no power to enforce the agreement. I don't believe in requiring anything that I have no ability or intention to check on or enforce.

It would be poor management of the people's money and trust to allow dogs to leave shelter intact with no provision for ensuring that they do not continue to perpetuation the problem which caused them and others like them to be where they are.
 
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#39 ·
And the government doesn't have the funds to hire people to enforce contracts, so the next best thing is to take care of it before the dog leaves. People don't care about contracts, they do what they want. A major clause in an agreement is that if you must get rid of the dog it has to go back to the shelter, not many people do that either. People don't even do that when they go to a breeder.

Back in the day you could get a dog in a shelter without issue. The rules change accordingly. Shelters see more dogs coming back with puppies, they make it where they are fixed. Dogs are returned because they don't get along with other dogs in the home, now all dogs must come in and do a meet and greet. Dogs are returned because a roommate doesn't want the dog, now everyone in the household needs to be present when adopting. Landlord won't allow dog, now they call the landlord to confirm the dog is allowed. Dog jumped up and scratched small child, now bigger breeds can't be adopted into homes with children under 5-7. Dogs picked up by animal control and brought in because the dog got out and there was no fence, now fences are required.

They see the problems, try to streamline everything and people will complain no matter what. These rules are in place because they have seen it over and over again. They are the ones that get to know all of these lost souls, they are the ones that have to take them out of the cage and take them for that last walk. They can't do anymore then they are doing. They are doing their best for these dogs because they have been dealt a bad hand.
 
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