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Pup got attacked. Was I wrong?

10K views 144 replies 34 participants last post by  Sabis mom 
#1 ·
I was at a park with my 8 month old. I had him on a 30ft lead because there were other dogs around and his recall isn't perfect yet. A lady with a golden retriever comes and asks if he's friendly, and I say yes but notice she has a chuck-it in her hand and I tell her Konig is a bit ball possessive. Shes says "oh thats fine I can just put it away." So I say ok but her dog approaches and gets pretty aggressive and growling and she pulls him away and she says sorry and takes him further away on the field. Konig loses interest so I take him off leash to throw the chuck it.. She sees that hes off leash and comes over with her dog and says "oh hes finally off the leash huh?".. So I smile and just say yea. Her dog approaches and starts to get aggressive again and charges Konig trying to bite at him as Konig tries to scramble away. And NO, they were not playing.. I do know the difference. And she actually started freaking out saying "oh leave the pup alone!".. She tries to recall him but can't and she tries to grab him but can't. I'm also trying to stop them and eventually am able to get my hands on the golden and basically shove him hard to the ground enough to make him tumble about 3 feet and wimper he turns and sees that I'm still walking straight for him and he goes flat on the ground and looks up at me. Then I just stood over him until his owner came and grabbed him.. But she basically looked at me like I had gone over the top and handled her dog too aggressively. Is it not justified to throw another person's dog onto the ground (or even kick, punch, hit with a stick, etc) to protect your dog if its being aggressive and the owner can't get control of it? I grabbed my things and left the park, not because I felt guilty but because I was so livid. Am I wrong in this situation?
 
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#3 · (Edited)
Personally, I think you went over the top. Unfortunately…if the dog starts to cower at you, you probably did way too much. This didn’t seem like a bad dog fight where that was necessary, seems like just restraining the Golden would’ve accomplished the job…and if you had the time/ability to grab and shove him, you should’ve been able to grab the collar and just hold him until the owner got there. This is the part about dog parks where you just need to leave when you see a dog is being aggressive and your dog can’t handle it. At your dog’s age, he probably won’t stand up for himself and could develop some fear/confidence issues when it comes to dogs if he has enough of these run ins.

Not sure why knowing your dog is ball possessive you took out a chuck-it either though. But that’s not the biggest issue here.

I personally try to control my dog and not physically touch other people’s dogs. Even though it sounded like the lady knew her dog was being aggressive…you’ll run into situations where the other person will tell you their dog is “just playing” and will get quite pissed if you decide to lay your hands on their dog. My dog can play rough…I personally don’t let him get too crazy and watch the other owner’s reaction to how their dog is dealing with the rough play. But say my dog was playing a bit too rough for your tastes, but it wasn’t crazy terrible, and you did that…you’re probably going to have bigger issues (from me).
 
#4 ·
Mm gotcha. Yea thats why im trying to get input in case.. God forbid it ever happens again.. I want to know the general protocol for handling it correctly.

But... 1. It was actually not a dog park. Just a park with a huge field (I avoid dog parks for now because of everything I read on this forum). And 2. I took out the chuck it because they were far enough away where Konig didn't care anymore and he was playing just fine with no other dogs around (she saw he was off leash and came over to me again) 3. It escalated very quickly and I wasn't standing there pondering.. "hmm... what should I do?" I just reacted. 4. When I say I got my hands on him.. I dont mean i was able to grab him. I was simply able to barely catch up and shove his rear down to the ground (though i admit i shoved him HARD) It wasn't like i got a hold of his scruff, windmilled him and mega slammed him to the ground or anything.. but again.. happened quickly. 5. She knew it wasn't normal behavior. She became very frantic trying to stop them also but her recall was failing and she wasn't able to grab him.
 
#5 · (Edited)
I think you were wrong, but I don't think you were over the top and I think it's a good learning situation.

When people at the park ask me these things, approach me, etc. they are asking for permission even if it doesn't explicitly sound like it.

If someone walked into a park area where I was playing with my dog and asked if he was friendly, ESPECIALLY with a chuck it in hand, they are saying, "is it cool for my dog to run around yours and most likely meet each other?" My response is instantly either "NO, he's not sorry" or "Yes but we are busy training right now" to nip any chance of a greeting in the bud. I don't know their dog and have NO reason to subject my dog to a potentially aggressive or sick dog.

"oh hes finally off the leash huh?" would have been replied to with a "Yes, but he can't meet your dog."

Sometimes you have to be so painfully, stupidly blunt with people to avoid issues like you experienced. But I would have done the exact same thing to another dog accosting mine, regardless of intent. My dogs rely on me to keep them safe, I am not going to give them a reason to doubt my abilities to do just that. The dog was a golden. It cowering sound pretty typical of a very friendly/mushy dog being reprimanded let alone struck. Maybe the owner will think twice next time.

eta; For what it's worth, you said park. I'm assuming this is not a dog park, but a park where you took your dog to play. I see nothing wrong with taking a ball possessive dog there, my dogs can be possessive when they are engaged with their toys, and we go to random parks to play all the time where there is no reason we would be accosted by random dogs. At the dog park we take it easy on the toys.
 
#6 ·
Think you did the right thing! The lady clearly had no control so the dog didn't respect her. It laid down for you because it clearly respected you after that. Dogs can take much harder hits when playing with each other. I think you were completely justified in defending your puppy and if someone else doesn't like it really is their problem. I would do the same thing for my dog or my kid and if the owner has issue with it then we can fix that too.... this is why I don't go near dog parks or areas with loose dogs unless we know them well.
 
#8 ·
Thanks for the input DJEtzel! I will keep that in mind next time. I guess she felt I wanted to let them play but she had to take her dog away... and so probably felt she could just waltz back when she felt her dog was ready. Will be more clear next time!
 
#9 ·
Yea... unfortunately wasn't a park I was familiar with :T At my park I've started learning which dogs Konig can and can't play with.

And Steve Strom, hahaha You're actually totally right. I don't know why but I instantly dropped the stick and moved towards them with both hands. I think my initial intent was to grab them. But yes, probably definitely not the best idea to try and grab an unknown dog with my hands... though eh... If it came down to it I'd take a nip to the forearm to keep my little guy safe.
 
#10 ·
Since this was a park (I’m assuming ON LEASH area) you really need to work on avoiding other dogs. If you are going to be playing off leash, I highly suggest either being in an area with almost zero traffic, or really working on your dog recall so that you can recall him the moment you see another dog and leash him. Neither dog should’ve been off leash for the greeting, or on a 30 foot line. Unfortunately, this is the type of situation where avoidance is the best way to prevent this from happening.

It’s hard to control what people do, so with my dog I have learned to just avoid them as much as possible. If I’m playing fetch in a field, I’m super vigilant for other people and their dogs. I think when your dog gets older, you’ll see more people avoid you (it’s a GSD) so it gets easier. But for the time being, you have to really watch for people and their dogs. I have one of those “friendly unless challenged” dogs, and the last thing I ever allow is a long enough interaction for the other dog to challenge mine. My dog can snap in a split second…and I don’t need a person thinking my dog is mean/vicious when they see me playing off leash with him. So I just don’t allow extra-long greetings…if I’m walking by people, we just walk by like we’re going somewhere and not really in the mood to socialize. I guess I’ve realized by now that although 95% of dogs are fine to meet, there’s that 5% you don’t want to, and that 5% makes me not want to allow my dogs to meet all 100%.

By the way...grabbing my dog in that way, is a surefire way to get yourself bit. You really never know which dogs are either trained or wired to do that. That's why I always advocate not physically touching/hurting a strange dog.
 
#11 ·
I had a similar situation with a big male ridgeback. The owner was unable to contain the dog, I had no issue kicking it multiple times in the face to protect my pup.
Would I act the same if the event would happen again? Yes only I'd kick the stupid owner when I'm done also
 
#12 ·
You would think after the intial encounter the woman would not come back again, but as DJ said, sometimes you need to be blunt from the get go. Hopefully not, but if something like this happens again, try to wheel-barrow the aggressor, in your scenario it probably would have worked.
 
#13 ·
martemchik, you got me there.. It was an on-leash park as far as I know... I just totally thought it was understood like "you stay there, i'll stay here, no problem". Really no clue why she decided to walk over. From what I've seen with my limited experience.. There are some owners that just HAVE to meet other dogs if there is one.. Like they're getting all antsy to have their dog play with another dog. (Hahah, kind of funny because its actually always the GSD owners that i see at the park that sort of mind their own business)

Will keep wheel barrel in the arsenal! And kick to the face only in an extreme case! hahaha
 
#14 ·
Sorry but I don't think that was over the top. I wish more people would discipline their darn KIDS like that. I swear, America the Land of the ButtHurt, and where everyone thinks they're the final authority on how to live your life. Not one of my finer moments, but I've had to hit a pit over the head with a tire iron before to get them off my Aussie, and I'd do it again in a heart beat. I think there is wayyyy too much sensitivity when it comes to certain things. Too much coddling and feelings nowadays. Just like a child, if you cannot control your animal there are repercussions. Either live with it or change it
 
#15 ·
Sorry but I don't think that was over the top. I wish more people would discipline their darn KIDS like that. I swear, America the Land of the ButtHurt, and where everyone thinks they're the final authority on how to live your life. Not one of my finer moments, but I've had to hit a pit over the head with a tire iron before to get them off my Aussie, and I'd do it again in a heart beat. I think there is wayyyy too much sensitivity when it comes to certain things. Too much coddling and feelings nowadays. Just like a child, if you cannot control your animal there are repercussions. Either live with it or change it
I don't think OP was over the top. I think that some decisions could have been made differently, let the woman know they can't meet, leave the park if the dog was acting that way.. but in the end what was done was what was capable by the OP at the time.

While I never want to be in the position to hurt another animal like that, I have to agree with you here. Not that we need to be beating our children or animals, which I believe is how some will take that.. but that somehow in this society, discipline, of any kind, has slipped past everyone. This is the "softer, gentler" world, which isn't reality at all and we are turning the new generations into these sensitive people who can't handle themselves when life really happens. Actions=consequences and sometimes those consequences just plain suck..

I digress. OP didn't hurt the dog, I'm assuming, as the owner was able to walk away with it and say anything about that. Her dog was the attacker and I have gotten in between a rushing dog a time or two when Titan was growing up.. never excalated but I was fully prepared to defend him in whatever way needed.
 
#18 ·
Well I'm gonna go ahead and assume that Girl_Loves_Hydraulics was talking discipline of children by parents has ceased to exist causing bad behavior and aids in creating this taboo subject.. disciplining... gonna again, assume she nor most normal people would throw a kid 3 feet or touch another's child in such a manner. The reference was meant to state as an expample of how our society has turned into this "OMG you grabbed their dog!!! You bad bad person!!" Versus, good for you defending your puppy... the OP never said they hurt the other dog. I know I have definitely physically removed a dog from my vacinity, with it yelping because I scared it. Didn't hurt it, just relocated it away from us because it was charging at Titan..

Unless I'm entirely off the mark and she meant to physically harm children and seek out dogs to man handle, but I'm guessing that's not the case here and it's being taken too far.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Versus, good for you defending your puppy... the OP never said they hurt the other dog. I know I have definitely physically removed a dog from my vacinity, with it yelping because I scared it. Didn't hurt it, just relocated it away from us because it was charging at Titan..
Is there a different yelp when a dog is actually physically hurt and when it's just scared? And you can tell the kind of yelp it was from the story OP wrote? That's pretty amazing...

Sorry...if you make my dog yelp...you'll have issues. You'll actually be lucky if the issues come from me and not my dog.

I've also met enough people that have no idea who's dog starts what....not saying OP is that kind of person, but its generally people with not much experience. I've spoken to a lot of people that thought their dog was innocent because it wasn't the one barking/growling/showing teeth and yet it was clearly the instigator because it was trying to dominate the other dog by pawing them in the face/putting their head on the other dog's back/things of that nature. And whenever we get these types of stories, you never get the full story (impossible to explain everything) and it's often pretty one sided. Not saying OP's dog was guilty in this case...but its possible her dog might've done something as well. OP did say that her dog had ball possession issues...meaning there is aggression there.
 
#26 ·
Just to clarify, it really wasn't a chance for me to react. She walked up with her dog off leash saying "oh hes finally off the leash" and there was really no introduction or interaction between the two dogs. Her dog just left her side when they were a good 10 meters from me and ran towards Konig snarling and barking. And yea.. he didn't actually get a good bite in, but he was certainly trying and Konig's scruff was pretty wet from where he was trying to get him. So while I do understand that i couldve tried to avoid the situation.. but she literally strolled up without asking, dog off leash, and her dog just launched and raced towards Konig.
 
#29 ·
Trust me…I’m constantly a jerk. I constantly just keep walking when people clearly want to introduce their dogs to mine. I don’t care what someone that I’ll probably never see again thinks about that situation and I’m not afraid to get physical or get into a confrontation in the least bit. But there are levels of physicality that are necessary…and IMO, in OP’s situation…OP was right to protect her dog, but probably went a bit too far on the correction of the other dog.

Did you guys see the article about the lady that got pulled over for speeding, the cop started to walk away from her car and she thought he was just letting her off with a warning (he wasn’t) and his partner started to shoot at the minivan full of kids? Like…a bit too much for a speeding ticket don’t you think? You’re going to risk someone’s life over a little confusion or purposeful running from the cops over a speeding ticket?

There are levels of confrontation…everyone has their own levels…but you should always know that if you go over someone else’s comfort level with a correction, you’re putting yourself at risk of them taking it to a level you don’t feel comfortable with.
 
#30 ·
You all quickly escalated this into a "well this could've happened" type of situation. I'm just focusing on what was told to me. Or the "well this happened to my dog once and I did this." The situation hadn't escalated to a dangerous point, and a collar grab was not out of the question. The only way to completely stop a dog fight is to restrain both dogs...not just throw one a few feet away and hope that it stops going after the other dog.

My dog has gotten into fights...I've always just restrained dogs by the collars. I've had to pry my dog's jaws from another dog's neck before. Staying calm, and not kicking him in the face was the best way to do it. Those situations have taught me how to avoid them in the future...so all I'm telling OP is that they're going to have to do that. Instead of praising them for doing the right thing and making them think that its the only way to solve that kind of problem. There are other ways to solve those types of issues that are much safer, and are less likely to result in vet bills or medical bills.
 
#32 ·
Konig's scruff was pretty wet from where he was trying to get him.
no
the golden did get him there
if your pups scruff was wet but with saliva and not blood then the golden was just "correcting' him as adults will sometimes do
dogs are insanely quick and if the golden had actually wanted to hurt your dog he would have when his mouth was on your pup
you freaked out but there was really nothing going on and as martem said grabbing the dogs collar would have worked

i think adult dogs do this to see if the puppy will submit and yours did so really all was nearly over as soon as it began
 
#37 ·
I don't think anyone's changed their opinion yay or nay.

There's a reason there are leash laws and it's for reasons like this. Hopefully we've learned to keep our dogs away from each other as not everyone or dog is friendly and on a leash. If the person says they don't want to interact, respect that.
 
#36 ·
My situation was a bit different and still very fresh in my mind
but OP, I wish I could just reach through this screen and hug you!
Maybe it IS a bit of a learning experience and maybe you can/will
do things a bit differently in future, and that's fine. But I will tell
you right here and now that I have an awful lot of guilt over not
being able to protect my girl and I am glad she's okay, and not
going to let anything similar happen again or trust in a nearby
hero contractor with a 2X4!!

No collar on the dog in my case, no chance whatsoever of a
wheelbarrow maneuver or anything else. Dogs all my almost
62 year old life, abused nary a one (or any other animal) and I
pulled back my right foot and let have it at that dog and I
would do it again in a heartbeat. I totally wrenched my back,
neck, shoulders and hurt my foot. This dog gave nary a whimper
or a cry or a growl or anything. Totally silent and intent. If I
had had a tire iron, I would have used it.

So okay, maybe your thing wasn't as bad as all that but escalation can
be waaaay too fast to try and stop and think, you do and sometimes
that's all she wrote. He who hesitates is lost!
 
#38 ·
You were both wrong if the dogs were off leash. You tell her that your dog is possessive of a ball and she puts it away to avoid an issue and then you take one out? Common sense is to not do that in the vicinity of other dogs to begin with. I know my goldens are super excited to meet other dogs and play. I also know that my younger one plays rough like a GSD and my older one will not put up with crap from another dog, it takes a lot but he can and will stand his ground. So whether this was play or a start of a fight you could have just blocked your dog or maybe even nudged the other dog. If I was that lady and you did that to my dog, things would have escalated real quick. It was way overboard and not acceptable, even a little bit. If you don't want to be in these situations, don't put yourself in them.
 
#39 ·
You tell her that your dog is possessive of a ball and she puts it away to avoid an issue and then you take one out?
yeah i caught that too
confused me

also has it been stated is this a dog park or a regular park?

a very good reason to avoid dog parks right here btw unless its big enough you dont run into a buncha strange dogs and even stranger humans
 
#40 ·
I dont really know why people keep missing this... I told her my dog was ball possessive, so she put the ball away and tried to let them play. Her dog immediately went aggressive so she LEFT to the other end of the field. It was a very large field. Its not like i just moved over a bit. She went to the other end to play. THATS when i took out my ball and was playing fetch just fine. She then decided to WALK BACK OVER. I dont know why you think I told her he's ball possessive and whipped out a ball in front of them. She was basically gone... then just thought it was a good idea to come back for some reason. And literally as they walked up her dog just took off towards mine. And my_boy_diesel, the reason he didn't get a hold was cuz he couldnt. He was much smaller and Konig was pulling away from him. When i said "scruff" i meant the side of his neck was wet. And trust me, he was attacking... Honestly, the other owner was way more freaked out than I was. Actually, i wasn't "freaked out" i was trying to stop it while she spun in circles trying to recall him and grab em as they ran by... she just couldn't manage to catch them but I did.

At the end of the day.. from this thread im realizing this is a split topic. And therefore I am going to stick with my method. If my dog is attacked, i will stop it in a manner that I see fit at the time that it is happening. And I'm sorry, but yes... that will include using a firearm if available as any cop would do to protect their k9 partners. I did my time in afghanistan and when the bullets start flying... you just do what you have to do and reflect on it later.
 
#41 ·
Are dogs allowed off leash? Did you know that another dog was present? You say the dog was showing aggression the first time , but you still stayed? A dog that is possessive over toys does not belong in a setting where there are other dogs, period. The first rule in dog ownership is to to protect your dog, but at the same time not putting them in situations where they need to be protected. Keep doing what you do but remember you have a GSD and one day you might be the owner with the dog that was kicked and cowering because someone over reacted or your dog growled over his ball.. I have a feeling you wouldn't be to happy , but there is a good chance this will happen if you choose to bring your dog to areas where other dogs are present. Only you can control where you take your dog and what situations you put them in.
 
#42 ·
I agree with your "end of the day".

If my dog is minding it's own business, and some strange dog attacks, bites, tries to start crap with her, I'm going to step in and do what I gotta do. No, I don't ever want to think I would have to 'hurt' another animal or someone else's beloved pet, but I will protect my dog even tho she can probably do a number on the offending party.

I do think if this was an area that dogs were supposed to be leashed, well then having them offleash is asking for trouble, but, even if the OP had their dog ON a leash, it sounds like this ladies dog 'offleash' would have done the same thing, sounds like maybe the other owner isn't to dog savvy, thinking "my dog likes everyone"..found out differently I guess:(
 
#43 ·
I would protect my dog, but I wouldn't grab a strange dog that is snarling. I never take a dog off lead if there is a chance of that type of encounter. I've had my dogs attacked unprovoked and often thought I should carry a stick or something I can use to keep a dangerous dog away. At the same time, it would be difficult to possibly harm another dog unless I saw it was attacking to hurt vs making a lot of noise.
 
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