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do you know more about your dog than other people even a trainer?

5K views 62 replies 25 participants last post by  selzer 
#1 ·
Some people seem to think other people and trainers know more about their dogs. Seems odd because you live with your dog you learn from each other. Not like the trainer is physic and knows everything even trainers can be wrong. They may know more what works best but not know as much as the owner. I know that my dog is a fanatic at swimming can go for hours. At times loves to bark when it is a fun happy time. Don't let him bark when frustrated anxious scared or nervous. He has his own indivdual that a stranger doesn't know about that.
 
#3 ·
I think it depends. I can tell you my dogs personalities and quirks inside and out. As far as why my dogs do certain things or act a certain way I can most of the time but a trainer can tell me how to fix it and more in depth why they do or act a certain way.
However, some people think their dogs do things and they have no clue on dog behavior and have it all wrong.
Ex: fido barks at everyone and raises hackles. Owner things dog is just being protective. Trainer and others with dog knowledge know fido is fearful.
Not everyone is keen on dog behavior.
I have learned a ton, but I'm no expert.
Just because you live with a dog doesn't mean you automatically understand dog behaviors. You have to study and learn what the behavior is and why the dog thinks the way it does to commit that behavior.
Some people who have dog knowledge can tell a dogs behavior or why they act a certain way and have never met the dog previously.
It's all about the right kind of knowledge
 
#4 ·
You'd be surprised at how many people think they know their dog and think they know how to read doggy body language but do not. They mistake submission for dominance, calming signals for a challenge, fear aggression for protectiveness.

You'd be surprised at how many people have inadvertently trained their dogs for certain behaviours, and then blame the dog for being 'bad', when it was their own actions that caused the behaviour. It often takes an outside person looking in, like a trainer, to be able to see the dynamics between owner and dog and be able to shed light into the situation.
 
#8 ·
You'd be surprised at how many people think they know their dog and think they know how to read doggy body language but do not. They mistake submission for dominance, calming signals for a challenge, fear aggression for protectiveness.

You'd be surprised at how many people have inadvertently trained their dogs for certain behaviours, and then blame the dog for being 'bad', when it was their own actions that caused the behaviour. It often takes an outside person looking in, like a trainer, to be able to see the dynamics between owner and dog and be able to shed light into the situation.
This.

I see it in classes all the time.
 
#5 ·
Of course, I know more about my dogs than a trainer does. But that doesn't mean a trainer might not know better why a problem exists and how to best manage the problem.

A good trainer can look objectively on how you handle your dog. They can see body language that the dog is reacting to that we may not be aware of ourselves. And they are caught up in loving the dog, so they aren't trying to see everything in a light that makes ourselves or our dog look better.

A good trainer has to diagnose the problem between dog and handler and then they have to lay out a course of action that will address the problem that will work for both parties.

In a group class of people teaching a variety of commands, the trainer has to demonstrate how to get the dog to do each command, and watch the handlers fumble through it. Then they have to adjust the techniques to fit the handlers, and help the handlers get it right. The focus is on the handler, for the handler trains the dog, the handler lives with the dog, the handler knows the dog. And much of the time, any problems reside with the handler moreso than the dog.

Someone on their 1st pup might be wise to accept the trainer knows more than they do, and if they trust the trainer, to do what the trainer says within reason. Someone on their 4th dog might have a better knowledge base, and may realize that an approach that most dogs will respond favorably to, may be over-kill for their dog, and may even make things more difficult. Experience with a variety of dogs, or sufficient history with the dog in question is the only way to get there.
 
#6 ·
I think in many situations the rose coloured glasses come out to play for most owners, having an outsider's POV who is trained and spent years studying is never a bad thing to have. I'd be foolish to completely throw it all away thinking I knew better, use what works and ignore what doesn't. Constructive criticism can be a great tool

Good trainers have multiple tools in their belts and will work with you to achieve the goals you have
 
#7 · (Edited)
I had to think about this and I finally have the most truthful answer I can give. As a responsible pet owner I freely admit that I don't really know Gunther at all. I know his behavior. I know he hides from the garbage truck, or anything he perceives as the garbage truck. I know he eats a lot of things that are very bad for him, even while still suffering from the very thing making him sick. I know he likes to jump up for hugs, will groan if we hug him (but almost like we expect it from him so he does it to humor us). I know that when my husband comes home up until I leave for work he's his preferred human. But as much as I know about what Gunther does, I have no idea why. We always tend to say "Because he's Gunther".

Raising a GSD dog is new to both of us. I do look to others for their input but I always take everything with a grain of salt too. Some of the criticism I ignore, some I respond to. But no matter what my attitude seems like I am always gathering information from others on here and in my social life and learning.
 
#10 ·
Just because they are strangers doesn't mean they don't know dog behavior. Everyone at one point in time is a stranger to you. Just because they don't know your dog, doesn't mean they can't wait the dog interact and understand if they have the right knowledge about dog behavior.
Yes, some people act like they know everything and don't. But that doesn't apply to everyone.
As I mentioned earlier: it's all about the right kind of knowledge.
 
#11 ·
Opening up to the idea that some people have excellent skills at reading dogs, maybe better than you, can help you to become a better trainer/handler but only if you are open to it.

I have sure learned some things about my own dog that way.
 
#12 ·
Couldn't have said this better.

When I stopped thinking that I was better than everyone else, I started learning a TON.
 
#21 ·
Cruz has probably taught me more than I've taught him. So you could say he knows more about me than I do him.

I agree with Selzer and others. There has to be a certain humility in an owner to be realistic about their abilities in training and come to the notion there is always more to learn. I fought an struggled with a leave it command with another trainer for months. Never could get it until I switched trainers and got one that actually watched us in action. The trainer then seen what the problem was, me. Well that and the method. It took all of about 10 seconds and there it was. It boiled down to the timing of reward from me. Dog was just doing what he does.
 
#23 ·
I also agree with Selzer.

There are many who "think" they know it all, when in fact , they know 'nothing', and are to 'blind' to be open to what a professional may observe.

There is always something new to be learned, having an objective PROfessional with a keen eye and ability to 'read' a dog/handler can always point out the flaws 'we' as owners probably miss.

A good way to pick out our own flaws is to video our training, go back and watch it or have a good trainer watch it.
 
#25 ·
Most pet owners don't know as much about their dogs as they think they do.

Heck, some pet owners don't even look at their dogs. You should see some of the dogs that people bring in for grooming. Nasty neglect-related problems. Eyes crusted shut, poop stuck to the dog's rear that has been there for weeks, horrible dental disease, ear infections, toenails so long they are curled into the pads. I uncover these things and tell the owners, and they act shocked.

Things owners say:

"He's not a biter" (translation: I never touch my dog)

"She's a really sweet dog" (translation: bites)

"He's a very happy boy" (translation: hyper and out of control)

"He's very protective of me" (translation: fear aggressive)

"He was abused" (translation: spoiled brat)

"He won't let me brush him" (translation: spoiled brat who bites)

"He shouldn't be matted; I brush him" (translation: brushed once last year; matted)

I'm often the one to explain a dog's general temperament to the owner, because they don't know what they're looking at. Almost every day I'm telling an owner about a medical problem, or behavioral issue they didn't know about. Occasionally I will have an owner try to argue with me, and tell me that their dog doesn't act like that at home. Well, of course he doesn't.... and if you ever took your dog anywhere besides the vet and groomer, you might know what your dog acts like when he's not on his home territory.

I'd say approximately 75% of the pet owners I see have no clue about their dog. Sure, they know the dog's little mannerisms, what he eats, what his favorite toys are, where he sleeps, and things like that. They see the dog's general personality at home when he's not under stress. People who take their dogs out have a little bit more of a clue, and people who actually train and work their dogs know a lot. But rarely do you get to see your dog's behavior when you're not there, and how a dog behaves away from his owner and his own turf can be telling.

You can always learn more about your dog, especially from someone who is an expert in behavior and can see things from a different perspective.
 
#26 ·
The reason that trainers or other people can give you more insight into your own dog is basic human nature. The majority of people are really bad at looking objectively at their own dog. They’ve raised it, it’s basically a child, and it’s the best dog out there. Many people will find any reason or excuse possible for what their dog is doing that makes it sound like it’s a good thing, and not something bad. Think of all the posts we get on this forum about a puppy barking/growling at strangers…most people believe it’s becoming protective, but anyone that knows dogs understands that the dog is doing this out of fear and not protection. But people don’t like to hear that, or think it, because they purchased a big bad GSD, there is no way that it can be fearful! No one really thinks about the fact that the puppy is only months old and can’t be expected to protect anything. A trainer looks at your dog and can be objective, he/she shouldn’t care about hurting your feelings, just telling you the truth about your dog. Many people can’t take the truth, or choose not to believe it. You’ll even see this with very experienced people, they’ll see what they want to see, not what is truly in front of them. That’s why dog shows and trials are so important, you get pure, non-biased, objective opinions about your dog, without any romanticizing of when the dog was younger or what it did in training 4 months ago. I have a friend that loves to go on and on about how amazing/dominant/powerful/confident one of his dogs is inside the house…but the moment that dog is out on a training field, it doesn’t show any of that. To him…the dog is amazing, he’s too attached to see what’s clearly in front of him, and doesn’t really like to listen when you tell him the truth.

I personally don’t listen to anyone’s opinion that just sees my dog on the street or at a park. Unless you make it clear to me what your experience is with dogs, your opinion doesn’t matter much to me. If I don’t know what the experience is of the person telling me their opinion, how do I know they’re not just talking based off of things they read on a forum or a website. It’s like all the people that think a slanted back on a GSD causes HD…the moment you say that to me, is the moment I know you don’t have any idea what you’re talking about.

OP, I don’t think you should take things personally on here. What you need to understand is that you’re young (I’m only a few years older than you) and anything you could’ve personally gone through with regards to dogs, someone on here has probably already experienced. The whole part about you hiking with other people’s dogs…people just don’t believe that someone else allows you to do that. I barely let my grandfather walk my dog, there’s no way I’d ever hand his leash over to a stranger. And the majority of dog owners on this forum are like me…I don’t need someone else walking/bonding with my dog, I can do all that stuff myself.
 
#28 ·
I think, as far as personality goes.. I know Titan pretty well. I know what situations are good for him, I know which ones are not. I know when he chases his tail it's for 2 reasons.. over excitement/excess energy or anxiety. Generally I can pick out which one at the time. I know that people can't come into our house without him barking his brains out but if we meet the in the driveway first with introductions, he is a whole new dog. I know that when he gets frustrated, he will go to his bed and suck on the corner of it. I know that he is SO smart and I can't keep up.... annnd way more than that.

SO yes. I do know him better than other people.. in general. Now trainers??? Goodness no! Lol.. I think some of the poor trainers I have seen train and have interacted with know less than I.. just based off our converstions, but a trainer worth a dime, not a chance.

I think people confuse knowing their dog and understanding their dog. I know his behavioral patterns, and a lot of them I have researched enough to know why that happens, usually with the help of online research and talking to trainers. But other behaviors, I haven't a clue why they happen, I just know a pattern of when and where and can pick up on triggers.. And for HOW to train behaviors, nope.. need help there. Basics, I got down, but for other things.. I need one on one sessions with a trainer to educate myself.

So I guess my answer to the original question would be yes in the general/surface sense, with the average joe.. but definitely not to a trainer that's worth anything.
 
#29 · (Edited)
I'm very interested in my dogs behaviors, pack structure, etc. I spend a lot of time watching and observing them. I find it intriguing. I have agreed with some trainers, disagreed with others. I take things from everywhere and apply them. I know when something isn't right medically with them, I know when they want something, and I can tell if an argument amongst them is on the verge of escalating. I think because I can read them so well is why I don't have fights between them. I know when to step in and when to let it go. So I would have to say that no one knows my dogs better then me. I'm very in tune with each of them and the bond is strong amongst all of us.
 
#33 ·
what nancy said above:)
 
#38 ·
Lol…as a young person myself, I think it’s very foolish to believe you’re the first person to come up with a ground breaking idea when it comes to dog training or dog behavior. I’ve read enough of OP’s opinions/ideas that I’m highly biased, and when I think of those ideas I know 100% that someone else has tried them or thought of them before and there is a reason they didn’t hit the mainstream.

Dog training just happens to be one of those areas where experience is the biggest thing. No matter how much education you get, how many training places you go to, how many seminars you attend, you can always attend more. It’s part of the reason I constantly challenge “old timers” that love to bring up the past, there are plenty of them that think they’ve reached the pinnacle and don’t feel the need to learn more, which is just as bad as the youngster that knows it all.

I think many times, a disagreement in opinion reads like a lack of respect on the internet. It isn’t. But many people take it as such. Sometimes it’s a great thing to challenge the widely accepted opinions, but it really depends on how you do it. Problem with this medium is that many times it’s hard to convey that you have listened and learned from an opinion, but choose to respectfully disagree with it based on your own knowledge. I think that’s where I’ve seen the most disagreements between generations on this forum…the loss in emotion/respect when discussing these topics over text and not in person.
 
#44 ·
I thought OP was talking about letting the dog jump up on you when greeting you.

Really not sure why anyone would have differing opinions on that. It's one thing for your dog to jump on you, or someone that doesn't mind getting jumped on when they're greeted, but you have no idea who is okay and who isn't okay with it. So why allow it at all? I think most people consider this a manners thing...not a dog "expressing itself" thing.

OP, its the same thing as allowing just anyone to hug you if they greet you. You're not going to allow a stranger to hug you when they greet you for the first time, society says a handshake is the more appropriate thing to do. A hug to a stranger is likely to get you punched in the mouth...why wouldn't the same apply to dogs?
 
#48 ·
I'm taking the OP comment to mean that when a dog jumps he is expressing himself and that his drama class taught him how to freely express
Himself.
In my opinion, that's great for you, but I'm not going to let my dog express himself
In that manner on people.
Because once your dog jumps on a small child or fragile person and hurting them, you're going to have a hard time getting away with "he's just expressing himself".
Dogs, like children, need boundaries. They need to be taught right from wrong. If they aren't taught these things and let them run wild "expressing themselves freely", nothing is going to come of it but trouble.
 
#49 ·
And I thought he was saying, that people over-exaggerate jumping, to be that people think that a dog jumping up on them is aggression and the dog is vicious.

Maybe we are all wrong.

After all, none of us old people can understand what the young'n is talking about.

It's too bad that your drama classes are teaching you to express yourself, but aren't bothering to explain that you need to write your ideas so that they can be understood. Probably part of the way they are raising kids these days: afraid to smack their fragile egos with requiring proper grammar, punctuation, subject-verb agreement, complete sentences, and paragraphs whose content support the general idea.

I've pretty much given up on the youth of today. They do not even care enough to pull up their pants. Why should we old fogies believe that they have anything to say about anything? They certainly don't believe we know anything. I say to you, youngster, show me. Show me that your training is incredible. Show me your Jumpy-level dog. Show me 3 or 4 or more of them. Show me your titles. Show me your accomplishments.

When you can show us old people what you can do with your dogs, then maybe we will want to hear about your new methods, etc. Then maybe we will be willing to say, yes, you know more than your trainer.
 
#50 · (Edited)
I've pretty much given up on the youth of today. They do not even care enough to pull up their pants.

Lolol this is priceless)))))
But selzer, you don't get it so maybe you are just an old uncool fogie (lolol whatever that is). The pants are not sagging because of carelessness. It's the result of careful design and planning. On some boys they must be glued right under their butt because them staying there is defying every law of physics.

But back on topic. I don't know what it is but back to it


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