Wait...did this thread seriously turn into a discussion over who could win a bar fight?? Hunter, your comments always add a nice color to a thread, but you do throw off an air of "I'm-a-badass-and-my-dog-is-an-mma-fighter" attitude that always makes me chuckle. True or not, interesting or not, your message usually gets lost in translation during the eye rolling that is brought on by your comparisons to bar fights, mma wrestling/fighting, etc....some interesting parallels you like to draw.
Anyway.
I have to wonder where the brain and thinking comes into play for some of the owners on here. That's why we love the GSD over the malinois, right? lol, I kid, malinois owners.
I think it was Winners that told a story about a mali that saw it's owner on the ground while it was searching on the roof. Owner called it thinking it would turn around and go down (or something like that) and the dang dog jumped off the roof and broke it's legs....brains.
Love echo, I really enjoyed reading your thoughts. Risk vs reward is an important part of the analysis/expectation. I realize domesticated dogs (GSDs specifically) don't and shouldn't have wolf characteristics (mainly flight)...however, we want a strong level of THINKING there too, don't we? Do those of you that would be "troubled" by this, really want your dog to stay and fight a deer in the woods, just because? Hunter you always talk about the "big wwf wrestling vs mma" or whatever....usually bringing up brains and discernment, and thinking. Where is the reward in fighting an animal with a good amount of weight and height on you, defending it's young? Especially when your "pack" and "territory" is behind you?
When I was working with an equine vet there were always stories of stupid pet dogs "challenging" horses and getting either killed or a big vet bill from getting kicked. A lot of times the the horse started it (some horses just hate dogs)...doesn't mean the dog should try and get the horse to "step down" because my dog is "all fight." I want my dog to have the brains to know it will not win a fight with a horse, and running under the fence is a better bet.
I don't want a dog that is all fight, all flight, all prey, all defense, etc. Balance and brains, that's what I want. Most animals that are always looking to fight don't live long (of any species), that's why natural selection has all but eliminated them in nature (brains win over "I want to fight everything" mentality).
I realize that we want to maintain that fight drive in domesticated dogs, I just think sometimes people want the equivalent to a meat-head wrestler, who speaks in grunts, and punches anything just to punch.
Off topic, but the drive I actually like to see the in the breed that seems to be disappearing is the hunt drive (and the high level of intelligence and discernment). The dog's ability to not give up, to have a love for the "track," and to want to use it's nose...when we allow the pendulum to swing so far in only focusing on fight drive...it's just like those obsessed with size. You are singling out one drive/aspect, usually at the sacrifice of others.
PS: One of my friend's works a police canine with over 100 "captures" under his belt, active on the street.....that dog is scared of other dogs. Doesn't get aggressive, he actually chooses flight. Yet he's capturing bad guys all the time. How does that work, "fearless" owners? So many would hear someone talk about how their dog is scared of other dogs and talk about how they wouldn't like that dog....that the dog wouldn't be "real enough" for them....yet this dog is out working the streets...as real as you can get. hmmm