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Old 05-16-2014, 04:55 PM   #171 (permalink)
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Yup. Fair enough!


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Originally Posted by Thewretched View Post
So with my service dog, it's my responsibility to physically stop all people, children included, from talking to my SD? I have to watch 360 degrees, and make sure no one is calling or about to touch her? The answer is yes, I do, but guess what, I shouldn't.

We all agree that every time were training our dog attention, or whatever the trick may be, a 2ft heel perhaps, and a person says "HI PUPPY" and forcefully pets your dog, and undos 2 hours of progress, we're upset.

We all agree that it's our responsibility to tell those people not to before they get to us. But 50% of the time, they weren't going to, and we come off as rude. It's just the worst when we just have to mess up ONCE and something happens to our dogs, but I'd rather be a (bleep) 100 times than let my dog get hurt.



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Old 05-16-2014, 05:33 PM   #172 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Gwenhwyfair View Post
My Smitty dog is as friendly as they come.

He's super tolerant of other dogs and acts more like a Golden when it comes to people.

When I first got him I couldn't figure out how to train him. He's loves people, just doesn't care if he pleases them or not. It's all about Smitty.

I was still heavily involved in horses so didn't really look for other methods (because treats and praise and my low key way from being around horses just didn't click with him but I didn't know better) so he was stuck at home a lot. If I took him out and tried to make him sit people would invariably see this happy tail wagging dog, tongue lolling out the side of his mouth and they would just walk up and mush all over him. He'd enjoy that for a few moments and then be dragging me off to the next place of more interest.

So it went. I didn't know better, it was a habit he already had and I didn't worry about it, as long as he was friendly.

Then I started learning. I found better methods that worked with Smitty and I started thinking it would be nice to get a CGC with him.

So now I had to teach him to not jump around and be a happy goof ball with every stranger he met. I worked with people I knew but out in public trying to proof was a nightmare. Folks just want the dog to pay attention to them, it makes them 'feel' good, or special. How often did I hear "all dogs love me" when my Smitty was all wiggly and lovey. I guess they didn't realize he's that way with EVERYBODY.

So now to undo all this, on a mature dog, I'd have to start correcting him. Happy bouncy goober dog, I tried it for a bit but just felt at this point it wasn't fair. Partly because it's such an entrenched thing with him now and partly because I'm not an expert trainer with just the right timing and such and partly because he's clearly a friendly dog people are, often, undoing my work. It ends up being unfair.

With Ilda I knew better. Plus she's very aloof with strangers so she doesn't send out any 'come pet me' signals. Still, I've been walking with her down a sidewalk and had people who were seated suddenly reach out, without warning and stroke her without asking.

The moral of my story is, if you want to achieve a goal, even something like a CGC people who do the sort of thing the trainer mentions in the video are making it much harder. Sometimes it's lack of knowledge and sometimes they are just being total jerks. When it comes to NON aggressive dogs, he's right.

Leave the dog alone, it's not your dog.

Going forward I'm going to be more direct, NOT rude. I won't swear or raise my voice but if someone is messing with my dog, while it's being good, I will say something. Period. End of story.
For me, I find how strangers behave helps me and my dogs in the process of getting CGCs and Titles.

I sent you a PM.

I am only going to add, that I have taken numerous CGC classes. Because of availability and that being what was offered, I have taken CGC classes with dogs that already had their CGCs, sometimes multiple times. And I take the test over too, because taking the test is good practice, even if we have passed it. I think I passed the test with Rush 5 times. So I have been to a LOT of CGC classes.

My dogs while they do not have this problem, every class has dogs that come out with the problem you describe. They want to get pets from everyone and are jumping up, etc. These dogs almost always pass their CGC. This is not an insurmountable problem.

In fact, dogs that are wary of being petted by strangers, wary of having their ears or paws handled, being brushed, petted on top of the head -- these dogs have far greater challenges to overcome.
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Old 05-16-2014, 09:19 PM   #173 (permalink)
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Smitty is going on 8 years old and was an adult rescue. He's a good boy, loose leash walks now, holds a sit/down until he is petted by stranger then he gets all goofy. I worked on it but decided it just wasn't something I wanted to work on at this point.

I like him the way he is really. Sweet, happy and at 8 years old I'm not going to worry about it. If his only problem is being too friendly I sure can live with that. The only reason I shared that story (reluctantly I might add) is because as I admitted, not being experienced with training dogs at all, then working up hill with an adult rescue with habits PLUS *some* <not all> people who would interfere does cause problems.

Got Ilda working on tracking and Autumn to work on with other goals. Autumn would be breeze to get a CGC with. I need to get to work on that...
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Old 05-16-2014, 09:34 PM   #174 (permalink)
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You have a picture of your dogs? I don't believe I've seen your babies yet


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Old 05-16-2014, 09:39 PM   #175 (permalink)
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I used to have an 'album' in my profile but I'm not sure what happened to the pics in there.

I'll post some up tomorrow and send you a PM.

The dog in my avatar is Smitty.
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Old 05-16-2014, 09:56 PM   #176 (permalink)
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I'd love to see them


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Old 05-16-2014, 10:24 PM   #177 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by selzer View Post
In fact, dogs that are wary of being petted by strangers, wary of having their ears or paws handled, being brushed, petted on top of the head -- these dogs have far greater challenges to overcome.
and how do you get them to overcome when every time you take them out in public some idiot is attacking their ears or the top of their head? I'm physically having to body block people from my puppy who go oooh cute puppy and then attack.
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Old 05-16-2014, 10:31 PM   #178 (permalink)
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and how do you get them to overcome when every time you take them out in public some idiot is attacking their ears or the top of their head? I'm physically having to body block people from my puppy who go oooh cute puppy and then attack.

Are they hurting your puppy? They seriously attack your dog? Pull or pinch its ears? Pound on the top of its head? Are you experiencing this?

Is your puppy showing fear of these people?

Seriously, Shepherdmom, if these people are not hurting your dog, you might be causing more problems for the pup than the people are, by the vibes you are sending down the leash. No socialization is better than bad socialization. The important thing to remember when it comes to socialization is to be calm and confident. If you get worked up about how people are acting around your puppy, you can create problems where there are none.
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Old 05-17-2014, 12:00 AM   #179 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by selzer View Post
Are they hurting your puppy? They seriously attack your dog? Pull or pinch its ears? Pound on the top of its head? Are you experiencing this?

Is your puppy showing fear of these people?
Airplane ears, tail curled around his but hiding behind me, oh yeah that is fear. Do you really think I don't know the difference between good socialization and bad? I am not about to let giggling tweens screaching cute puppy and trying to grab his ears, set back 3 months of progress. My dog will never be what did someone call it? "a social butterfly". But he does need to function and to do that he needs to have some socialization. I should be able to walk through a store without having idiot people attack without warning.
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Old 05-17-2014, 08:43 AM   #180 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Gwenhwyfair View Post
That's not what you've indicated here thus far, as a matter of fact you even made comments to shepherdmom regarding her desire for personal space.

Not everyone needs to be a social butterfly and that includes dogs.

I don't care about anecdotal stories about 90 year old neighbors. I just don't care. Also, the trainer in the video isn't talking about dogs with severe aggression issues and neither am I. This really is NOT about extremes!

I'm talking about the vast squishy middle here where most of the problems occur.

The blog I linked earlier mentioned it as well (although because they put a swear word in the title link won't work, which I wish they wouldn't do that) but still the point is very valid.

Why does my dog have to be 150% bomb and idiot proof because someone else hasn't taken the time to train their derpy goofy lab? That's THEIR problem NOT mine and I think we've gone way too far enabling people who are, for all practical purposes, being too lazy to train THEIR dogs.

AND....for those who whistle or bark or otherwise act obnoxiously, not to mention throwing French fries at a working SD, if they are adults, they NEED a good talking to.

It's time to stop enabling these people.
gwen, i am 5'9" and 215 pounds, though i should be at around 200,lol, and the truth is that if a gsd wants to do something while on a leash, i would be unable to out muscle any gsd. can you?
your dog needs to be idiot proof and 150% bomb proof because you are legally held liable for everything your dog does. there are always going to be stupid ignorant uneducated people out there. that is the world we live in.
i have worked in emergency rooms for more than 30 years now and have seen the destruction an untrained unstable dog can do to people. mauled children that will never look normal again no matter how good the plastic surgeon, lost fingers and ears, hands that will never function properly again as the tendons were damaged beyond repair, infections and the list goes on. adults that loose there homes because they can't work after a dog mauling. truth is, the worst dog mauling i have ever seen was done by a beagle against a grown man.
of course you missed the point of the story about the 90 year old lady as "its all about you and your rights". you and the low class guy that needs to swear to get attention in the video can complain about how the world should be and rage at those of us who point out how the world is and in this case you need to adapt.
let me be the first to thank you for the one day when your just not 100%, bad cold have the flu and just off enough so that the muzzle you put on is just not quite correct, and you are just a bit distracted and in one second, the kid that got away from an equally distracted parent, or the dog loving person who thinks a muzzle is just precaution and even the idiot who barks at your dog is missing body parts, or if the muzzle did its job the dogs paw just took out an eye. but what the heck, you have your rights. keep yelling that as the cop puts your dog down on the spot. repeat that as the judge fines you into financial ruination, and takes away your other dogs and bans you from ever owning another dog. keep screaming about your rights as they drag you out o court as you continue to argue with the judge after his ruling. i am thanking you because in your quest to show you and your dog have rights, you just furthered the argument of many who want certain dog breed bans in their towns. for causing ins rates to go higher or making gsd uninsurable altogether. again though, why would you care about any of this, after all, you have rights and you are out to prove this to everyone. of course your "rebel" thinking does give me job security so i thank you for that also.
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