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Old 01-07-2014, 10:51 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Mixing Show with Working?

Oh, I'm sure this has been discussed. In my hundreds of hours looking at breeders, I see some breeders breeding a WGSL w/ a WGWL. Did I get the initials right? Probably not, but who cares, you know what I mean. Show and Working mix. Why?

Seems you would end up with a SL line that couldn't Show and a WL that couldn't work as good.

Been my experience that when you mix to things that are dedicated to a specific task, you end up with something that can't do either very well.

I love analogies (and strippers) so let's look at motorcycles. You have a great dirt bike and a great street bike. Combined the two. Now you have a terrible dirt bike and a terrible street bike all in one.
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Old 01-07-2014, 10:58 PM   #2 (permalink)
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You've summed it up well. Pretty much why its not done...

That type of dog won't excel at anything. It will be a good middle of the road dog, but not winning any Sieger shows and not making it to the WUSV working dog championship.
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Old 01-07-2014, 11:00 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I'm not a fan of the cross. It can work well or it can be a disaster(within a litter even) I'd rather see a nice blending of well thought out breedings done within lines(WG/Czech is my favorite 'mix') than the SL/WL matchups. More often than not it seems to be the flavor of the months in those, vs what actually might work to improve whatever they are trying to disguise or get rid of. Or it is a breeding of convenience, you like this dog and that bitch and breed them to see if you can get a deep red sable with great conformation.
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Old 01-07-2014, 11:32 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I have an ASL/DDR cross and he is an excellent obedience/agility dog. But the cross does have to be done carefully and with the right individuals. What you usually get with a cross is a dog that you would breed back into your lines.
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Old 01-08-2014, 12:08 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by onyx'girl View Post
I'm not a fan of the cross. It can work well or it can be a disaster(within a litter even) I'd rather see a nice blending of well thought out breedings done within lines(WG/Czech is my favorite 'mix') than the SL/WL matchups. More often than not it seems to be the flavor of the months in those, vs what actually might work to improve whatever they are trying to disguise or get rid of. Or it is a breeding of convenience, you like this dog and that bitch and breed them to see if you can get a deep red sable with great conformation.
I think it's Hillbilly BYB breeding what they can out of ignorance to have a litter to sell.
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Old 01-08-2014, 12:19 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I have one now, absolutely my favorite puppy so far. Very happy with him, he's already improved on 3 minor things I didn't like about the sire, but he's only 11 weeks today so we've got a long way to go... I own the sire and know several dogs on both sides of the breeding. I don't think the show/work cross is really all that common (at least with actual health tested dogs and decent pedigrees) but the other litters I know of are all for different reasons. Like Daphne said in most cases it's just one step in a 2+ generation plan, a way to open up a pedigree yet go back to the lines you like with subsequent breedings. I wasn't initially planning on getting this puppy so he's kind of an open book, I don't really have any set plans/goals for him, just happy to retain some of the bloodline I love yet move away from the genetic bottleneck on both sides.
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Old 01-08-2014, 12:43 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liesje View Post
I have one now, absolutely my favorite puppy so far. Very happy with him, he's already improved on 3 minor things I didn't like about the sire, but he's only 11 weeks today so we've got a long way to go... I own the sire and know several dogs on both sides of the breeding. I don't think the show/work cross is really all that common (at least with actual health tested dogs and decent pedigrees) but the other litters I know of are all for different reasons. Like Daphne said in most cases it's just one step in a 2+ generation plan, a way to open up a pedigree yet go back to the lines you like with subsequent breedings. I wasn't initially planning on getting this puppy so he's kind of an open book, I don't really have any set plans/goals for him, just happy to retain some of the bloodline I love yet move away from the genetic bottleneck on both sides.
Do you know how the other pups in the litter were? Were they all pretty much the same, or was there some pretty distinct differences between them? I hope you stay in touch with a few of them, would love to hear about their accomplishments and growth and how they all compare. :-)
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Old 01-08-2014, 12:56 AM   #8 (permalink)
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The breeder moved to TN so I've only seen the two males she sent me and one sister that will be local. So, other than mine I will have to nearby I can "see" The other male was VERY much like Nikon. If I knew I was committed to sport/work like I was during Nikon's younger years and with Pan, I would have kept that one (and I love black and red), but since I hadn't planned ahead to keep a pup from this litter I don't know if I can realistically commit to that much training with another dog (I'm still doing several things with Nikon and Indy) so I chose the puppy that my husband I thought fit really well even as "just" a pet. He also has a little kink in his tail which I personally don't mind but that way someone else doesn't have that if they are more interested in showing/breed survey. I would *like* to do those things but am not crushed if I can't

I did have a puppy here last spring that was a half brother to this litter so I got to see what it was like raising him for several weeks.
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Old 01-08-2014, 01:07 AM   #9 (permalink)
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My male is a German showline/DDR/West German working line cross. He is quite a hard dog with medium drive, he LOVES to work and will go go go go go. He excels in herding, loves agility and lure coursing. He's also a very solid dog as far as I take him everywhere with me and he has no issues, he goes to restaurants with me and very crowded busy areas with all kinds of things going on and he's totally calm through it all. He's aloof towards strangers but will accept pets from most people though occasionally he just won't be interested and will just move away from them, he especially loves kids and will actually want to go meet them but most are afraid of him, maybe because of dark coloring not sure. He's a tugging monster and has boat loads of prey drive.

Would be make a great Schh prospect? No but he has such much going for him in so many other areas, he is all GSD.
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Old 01-11-2014, 04:51 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harley120R View Post
Oh, I'm sure this has been discussed. In my hundreds of hours looking at breeders, I see some breeders breeding a WGSL w/ a WGWL. Did I get the initials right? Probably not, but who cares, you know what I mean. Show and Working mix. Why?

Seems you would end up with a SL line that couldn't Show and a WL that couldn't work as good.

Been my experience that when you mix to things that are dedicated to a specific task, you end up with something that can't do either very well.

I love analogies (and strippers) so let's look at motorcycles. You have a great dirt bike and a great street bike. Combined the two. Now you have a terrible dirt bike and a terrible street bike all in one.
Hate to shoot albeit, a small hole in your analogy, but that depends on if the dirt/street bike was built by someone who knows what they are doing with a plan or someone that just has a great idea with no plan or knowledge of bikes in general. As a matter of fact, there is a purpose built production dirt/street bike available to the public. As a matter of fact, you can race these bikes. There are also two catagories of bikes I'm refering to. The Suzuki's DRZ Motard line and also Honda's XR series. Really the DRZ series is more in line with your analogy and is a pretty fun bike that can do both.

But getting back to the topic. Opinions vary.

Personaly, I wouldn't want a dog that does one thing really great, but instead, one that does many things well.
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