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-   -   Is the Belgian Malinois replacing the German shepherd dog? (http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-information/386418-belgian-malinois-replacing-german-shepherd-dog.html)

GSD_Dakota 12-25-2013 02:30 PM

Is the Belgian Malinois replacing the German shepherd dog?
 
Here in Canada, German shepherd dogs dominate our forces. Along with China, UK and other places. But in American and more popular places like Germany too, the Belgian Malinois is really popular now?
I don't agree with the change, to be honest. I noticed many Malinois want to bite people, and have to be reminded by their handlers not everyone is for biting...
I like the breed and all, but it's sad to seem them just throwing the German shepherd away so easily. The German shepherd served us for over 100 years, and seeing they can dump them away isn't all that cool. Max von Stephanitz won't be to pleased.

Where you are, are the German shepherds being forgotten :(?

scout172 12-25-2013 02:45 PM

Here in Monrovia California the German shepards are not being forgotten. There in fact is many including my own scout!!!!

Blitzkrieg1 12-25-2013 02:59 PM

Go talk to guys who sell these dogs to LE and the Military. They either go to europe or have agents there. They look at 100s of dogs each year. You are much more likely to find a dog with the right working traits and health in the malinois camp. The reason being they are mainly bred for work not shows or any other sillyness. Dog cant work = its useless and not bred. What your likely seeing is bad training and handling. Mals are not the breed for everyone and thats been what has saved them from getting ruined.

Now within mals there are different lines
FCI lines more sporty and not known for consistently producing hard dogs. However they have started mixing in some KNPV dogs. Many of these dogs get sold to LE.

AKC showline not very many of these. The workability and aggression has been bred out of them. They do shows and are used in soft sports like obedience and agility.

KNPV lines. These are not registered dogs though they have a pedigree. These are dutchy\mals. They are bred for hardness, aggression, athleticsm and nerve strength. They cull hard. The entire program is oriented towards selling the dogs to military or LE.
They consistently produce good dogs, that 99% of pet owners would never be able to handle without getting eaten..lol.

On a personal note when you work a mal or dutchy if its decent it eclipses a good gsd. Its like comparing a sedan to a sports car. Faster, harder and more precise.

The GSD is heading out the door for many reasons. Just look at many of the threads and posts on this board for your starting point. There are still and will always be some good onesbut not even close to the numbers of mals / dutchies.

selzer 12-25-2013 03:17 PM

I think, like with everything else, it is going through a phase. It used to be that law enforcement wanted dogs that German Shepherds fit their requirements very well. They liked the size and other characteristics that GSDs are better than mals or dutchies.

But then officers started working with these other breeds, and were probably laughed at at first. On the other hand, these dogs probably did spectacular on the proficiency testing, and other people jumped on the band wagon. I think it has changed what was expected of police dogs. Just like I don't think we need to have golden retrievers in GSD bodies, I don't think it is any more correct to have Malinois in GSD bodies.

If some of the police requirements favor the other breeds, fine. I think many of them have come back to GSDs, because the breed is excellent in many ways, and I also think that some of the lines are closer to the requirements they currently have than others.

KZoppa 12-25-2013 03:38 PM

I know back home, the PD has a mixture of GSDs, Mals, and I believe they JUST got a dutchie. GSDs still dominant the K9 force back home. Also I've seen more GSD military dogs than I've seen dutchies or Mals. I know a lot of what you're seeing is departments deciding they want the lighter more healthy mals while other departments will spend the time to search for healthy GSDs with solid hips. Out here I've seen mostly GSDs as K9s. I think there is ONE mal on the force here but I cant be sure. I know a lot of the MWDs are bred in a breeding program that belongs solely to the air force but they will seek outside dogs as well.

Its really a matter of where you are and what the departments/handlers themselves prefer working with.

gsdsar 12-25-2013 03:46 PM

We see a mix. Our local departments use an even mix of GSD, Mal, and Dutchie crosses. Usually it's Dutch/GSD cross. Which is very cool looking.

I think a lot has to depend on the people picking the dog. I know in my county department, more than a few of the dogs have been purchased as puppies by a handler, raised and then sold to the department by the handler. It's a great department, very nice stable dogs. Save for the odd few.

Mals are cheaper, smaller, can have longer careers. But again, it's all in the department and how they acquire their dogs.


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Blitzkrieg1 12-25-2013 05:10 PM

Unfortunately its not a phase or a fad it is numbers. The amount of gsds that can pass a brokers tests both physical and mental are diminishing. I know one well known broker who supplies certain agencies went from a healthy mix of both breeds to almost exclusively knpv dogs. He still buys a few gsds per year but no more then 5 - 7 per year.
Some of the top echelon agencies wont even buy gsds anymore which is sad..

Vagus 12-25-2013 05:10 PM

Here in New Zealand GSDs still dominate. In fact, I've only ever seen a belgian malinois once in person, and that was at a training club, after everyone had already left. One of the trainers had brought him out and he was muzzled and in some sort of training harness and he was pulling like a monster :D. Protection sports are still largely uncommon here, in fact there's only one schutzhund club in the entire country.

Out of curiosity I looked up Mal breeders one day to get a feel for their popularity here and I only found 1! To be fair though, I've only ever found about 4 working GSD kennels too and have met only one working line GSD. There's also only one registered Dutchie in the entire country, belonging to one of the working line GSD kennels I found on my search. Would some of you lovely american breeders please set up camp here and show me your lovely, stable working line dogs :) I'm apprehensive about the tiny working gene pool here

GSD_Dakota 12-25-2013 05:30 PM

Is bad breeding a part of the reason German shepherd dogs are not being used like before? I mean, many show lines have no aggression at all and can't move correctly. I'm not saying show lines are terrible though, but I'd never own one.

I heard GSDs are slowly fading because of the show dog breeding. Weak nerves= not a good Police/Military dog.

crackem 12-25-2013 05:44 PM

I have NEVER seen a good GSD or Mal outperform the other. Show me the "best" mal and the "best" GSD and you'll be hard pressed to find how one is better than the other. Work enough and you'll know.

There are plenty of GSD's that are too slow, too big, too lazy, to weak in temperament, too low in drive too whatever to be anything other than a pet. There are also plenty of Mal's who's drive, can at times, make up for their lack of nerves. There are a lot, and I do mean, a lot of nerve bag ****s called a belgian Malinois that will never make a decent working dog, ever. They might excel at a prey based sport because drive can override nerves at times, but a "working dog" ? please.

Then you have those that are of good temperament and drive, and there are plenty of both. I think it comes down to money, plain and simple, money. One costs a lot more than the other


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