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boomer11 12-22-2013 01:50 AM

cops using k9's to search cars (edited) is unconstituational
how is it that a cop can search a car just because a dog "alerts" to drugs? to me thats giving a cop extraordinary power and basically craps all over our 4th amendment rights. any officer can cue his dog to alert to drugs that arent there. our rights are basically dependent on a dog who doesnt know any better and is basically searching in hopes of a reward/ball. its not the dogs fault but i hate the fact that cops can use a dog to immensely abuse their power.

if a bomb dog in iraq has a bunch of false positive thats fine as long as its also indicating on all the real positives. its job is to find any signs of a threat. but police dogs indicate false positives ALL THE TIME and can easily be cued to indicate. a cop can literally search any vehicle he so well chooses just by making the dog indicate a false positive. how the heck is that legal?

and yes tonight my friends car got pulled over and the cop wasted an hour and 30 minutes of our time because his ego couldnt take him being wrong. there were no drugs to be found. we dont even smoke cigerettes much less do any sort of drugs. to me using a drug dog as a REASON to search a car is as illegal as it gets.

Bane Vom Vox 12-22-2013 02:16 AM

If you are being legally detained per reasonable suspicion then you can be detained as long as is reasonable to satisfy the investigation.

Something gave them a reason to detain you guys and conduct an investigation . Any time you are lawfully stopped and detained you are not free to leave.

If it is a consensual encounter then you can simply walk away at anytime.

There are many factors that can justisfy a detention. If you'd like to lay out the whole scenario then I'd give you my opinion.

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warpwr 12-22-2013 02:24 AM

What was your friend pulled over for?
Why was a canine unit called?

I would say that if a trained drug sniffing dog alerted to your friends car's interior, that 'probable cause' might be the justification for a more thorough search inside.

I doubt that a police canine officer would just randomly pull someone over, have his dog search their car for no reason and then secretly have the dog react to nothing. What would be the point?

boomer11 12-22-2013 02:43 AM

we were coming home from a bday party. the cop pulled him over for speeding. he apologized and said he wasnt paying attention and gave the officer his insurance and license. its just a speeding ticket, no big deal. i was in the middle of telling him a story when we got pulled over so when the officer went back to his car i continued with my story. after awhile he comes back to the car and i guess see's us laughing and his demeanor completely changes. he then starts asking us a bunch of questions of where we're coming from and going and if there is anything illegal in the car. my friend snickered and basically asked him what in the world would make him think that? my friend said you pulled me over for a speeding ticket and didnt mention anything about drugs when you first approached. why now?

long story short cop asks to search the car. friend laughs and basically says **** no. you have no probable cause what so ever (his car is clean, no trash anywhere). cop says he'll call the k9. friend says go ahead. im actually excited as i want to see the dog and see what the dog does as i know for a fact there are no drugs in the car. not even residue because he would rather drink ice tea over a beer much less do drugs (same with me). the k9 very clearly indicated because the officer pointed and was speaking to it in a high pitched excited voice. the officer had the most SMUG look on his face. now i'm upset too. couple more officers come and they search the car (mostly front passenger side). they find nothing and eventually let us go. as we leave both me and my friend now have the most SMUG looks on our faces and wave bye to the officer with the hurt ego.

its not really about what happened to us. its about how can an officer search your car for any reason he chooses? all he has to do is get the dog to indicate and thats easy to do with crappy training. if i look at an officer wrong he has the right to search my car? if i piss him off he can search my car and take my cash (aka drug money)?? i can glare at an officer from my house and he has no right to search my house. yet he can do so to my car? my point is its so easy for a cop to abuse the use of a k9 to do whatever he wants.

boomer11 12-22-2013 02:52 AM


Originally Posted by warpwr (Post 4709834)
I doubt that a police canine officer would just randomly pull someone over, have his dog search their car for no reason and then secretly have the dog react to nothing. What would be the point?

good question! the point is that SOME cops have egos and the hunger for power and control. a crappy cop can use a k9 to be very abusive and basically spit all over our 4th amendment rights. just look at this video. how the heck is this not unconstitutional? what probable cause?

Illinois Traffic Stop Of Star Trek Fans Raises Concerns About Drug Searches, Police Dogs, Bad Cops

boomer11 12-22-2013 03:12 AM

or stories of dogs who alert on people and cops find nothing on the person so they take them to the hospital to get anally probed??!! a dog is not a third party that is there to hear both sides of the story. it wants to please its handler. it wants to alert. alerting means the ball or a pat on the head or lots of praise. the dog is clearly not impartial and yet is such a powerful tool that can be used to violate your rights.

David Winners 12-22-2013 03:43 AM

A bad cop is a bad cop, whether he has a K9 or not.

If a dog false indicates, it is a training issue. If a dog false indicates due to a handler cue that is intentional, I would think that is entrapment. Proving it would take some expert witnesses and review of the training records of the team as well as the video.

Bomb dogs in the military fall out of mission capable status if they fall below 98% accuracy. Misses and falses are counted negative. The worst bomb dog on a mission is at 98%. The problem with a dog false responding is it wastes time, places people in danger because they are stationary, and erodes trust in the team.

In the situation you describe, I feel you are justified in questioning the motives of the officer. Any handler can talk their dog into responding by just asking for the final response. If you tell the dog to sit, it's going to sit. Proper training, handling and records keeping of well run and ethical K9 teams avoids this type of thing altogether. It is the misuse of the tool that is at fault. It's of important note that most, not all, narc dogs can search the exterior of a vehicle in about 20 seconds. Semi trucks take about a minute.

I feel your pain though. I've been hassled a couple of times by the police in my younger years. No fun at all. Sorry you got the runaround man.

Bane Vom Vox 12-22-2013 05:41 AM

If you feel your rights were violated you can always ask for the officers badge number and call and speak with his sergeant.

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jocoyn 12-22-2013 06:44 AM

I have some concerns about whether or not this is a political post but am asking another.

In regards to detection work. Like anything else there is bad and good out there. The Supreme court has consistently asserted the use of a dog to sniff the outside of a vehicle and secure a warrant less search if they indicate.

Many good departments and states require routine certification and records to demonstrate proper rates of correct response. Had you gone to court, a defense attorney would be looking for this information.

To some extent it sounds like you may have given the police some reason to use the dog by your demeanor. My response to any police officer, even with only peach fuzz on his face (if a man) is yes sir/no sir (or ma'am). I figure they are probably a bit edgy as every stop is a chance of being shot or killed for them.

But if you feel it was unjust, most of them have cameras on their cars and I would escalate the issue.

erfunhouse 12-22-2013 07:14 AM

LMAO yes cops aRE power hungry jerks who want to abuse their power....please refrain from calling for assistance now and in the future.

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