Need Serious Advice ! - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-17-2013, 01:29 PM Thread Starter
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Need Serious Advice !

Hello, my name is Chris I'm new to posting here but not new to visiting this site for information on GSDs.

I have a now 6 month old all black shepherd named Hera and I love her to death. Ever since we got her (my partner and I) she has become such an integral part in out lives. I can't imagine life without her.

I made a monstrous mistake last week, and I really need your help and advice. Before I begin, I need to say that I love animals period. I am horrified with myself. I know what I did was wrong. Anyways:

Last Tuesday, I awoke in a horrible mood due to unforeseen circumstances. I went downstairs to open heras crate per usual and she was just as excited to see me as she always is. She jumped up on me like she does and we fell to the floor together, I rubbed her belly and she have kisses. Then, she bit me (playfully) but hard enough that I just snapped. I hit her. She cried out and peed, and seeing the pee infuriated me more and I hit her a second time.

She ran down the stairs to the door and I sat there, horrified. I knew what I did was so terribly wrong and I instantly regretted it. I tried to console her and give her some treats. We went for a walk and she was okay after that.

Fast forward to now, her and I are back at our baseline of fun, love and play HOWEVER, she has a new problem and it's all my fault ....she will pee as soon as I take her out of the crate now for a solid week. Her ears will go down and she will walk over to me and just crouch and pee as pet her. Sometimes she pees very little, others there's a lot. Regardless, I don't yell, chastise, or even say no. I just continue to pet her and kiss her unt she lets me rub her belly
(That's our "thing" I always get her sweet spot). Then I clean it up without protest.

How can I get her to stop doing this submissive pee? Thank you so much. I wish I never touched her. I miss how she was. I feel like a monster!!! Please help.
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-17-2013, 01:41 PM
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I'm glad you realized that you did something silly. Now do not beat yourself up too much for it...

I think that when she pees you need to completely ignore it. If you pet her while she is peeing or after she pees it only reinforces the behavior. She may be lead to believe that peeing is ok or that it actually is a good thing to do because you give her so much affection while and after she has done it. I even encourage you to kindly say 'no' while she is peeing and take her outside immediately.

I'm sure others will chime in and give better advice but I have usually seen threads about submissive peeing being cured by ignoring and stopping them from peeing to take them outside.
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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-17-2013, 01:47 PM
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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-17-2013, 01:50 PM
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I would completely ignore her when you let her out of the crate. Take her right outside to relieve herself and then have your loving routine. Stop petting her while she urinates and stop trying to "make up" for what you did as you are continuing to make her nervous because you are acting differently. Move on and commit to having a positive relationship from this moment on.

It may also help to move the location of the crate if possible.
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-17-2013, 01:55 PM
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I don't have an answer for you but I am anxious to see what the more experienced have to say.

I commend you for actually coming clean so to speak. It takes some courage to admit and seek advice. We all make mistakes but you now see first hand the ramifications of that. Now move on.

My first thought would be to change the routine. Out of the crate and immediately go outside and do your thing when you come back inside.
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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-17-2013, 02:29 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the responses. I appreciate the advice. I'm going to start ignoring her and waking right to the door after I take her out of crate, and stop petting her when she does pee...I've been concerned that I may be encouraging her that it's ok to pee with me now. Thanks again.
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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-17-2013, 04:49 PM
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Why puppies pee/ submissive/excited urination.

A puppy is born with a defense mechanism. Well, they are not born with it really, it develops. When a puppy is born, its dam has to stimulate it, so that it pees and poops, and she cleans it right up. By keeping the nest clean, she teaches her puppies to be clean.

Adult dogs are usually pretty free with puppies, puppies have something called a puppy license until they are around 4-5 months old, and adults, let the puppies eat out of their bowls, walk all over them, tug on their ears, pull on their tails, bite them with their nasty little milk teeth. And then one day around 4-5 months old, the adult dog says Heck No You don't!!!! (Only they don't have to say it with respect to automatic censoring.) Suddenly they start to crimp down on on the pup's behavior. Also, the dam is no longer interested in keeping the other dogs at bay. So here is the defense mechanism. If a dog starts punishing a puppy or goes to attack a puppy, the puppy will roll on its back and pee a little. There is a pharamone in the urine that will help to soothe the beast, so to speak.

Your dog did this because she was frightened by you. If you would have stood up and walked away, and pretended like nothing happened, that may have been the end of it. Unfortunately, your response to her peeing has only made her more nervous, so now she has this nervous urination going. This stuff does go away on its own with some time, and no irritation with her, just clean it up. Moving the crate to a different location and no fan fare first thing when you let her out as others have mentioned.

Good luck. Sometimes we do something we regret, most of us have at some point, and our dogs will get over it. They're resilient.

My girl pees out of excitement when I go over to her area and pet her over the baby gate. I could stop petting her. Not. So, now I am trying to get her over this phase. Every time I think we have it beat, she leaks again. She's still beautiful and sweet. It's just a little pee.

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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-17-2013, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Zeeva View Post
If you pet her while she is peeing or after she pees it only reinforces the behavior. She may be lead to believe that peeing is ok or that it actually is a good thing to do because you give her so much affection while and after she has done it. I even encourage you to kindly say 'no' while she is peeing and take her outside immediately.
Submissive urination is an involuntary response to insecurity and fear. Therefore rewarding or punishing it, is useless.
Here's what I would do to break up the cycle:
_ get a different type of crate, a new bed/blanket and put it in another location.
_ approach the crate, and her in it, sideways, avoid eye contact and everything excitable, and make yourself small next to the crate, open it and let her come out without paying attention to her. Let her follow you outside and keep things calm.
I am glad you saw what you did wrong, we have all goofed up one way or another.
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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-18-2013, 11:51 PM
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I'm no expert, but it sounds like you have started a habit with her. Once or twice I get, but every day for a week sounds habitual. Would it be possible for your partner to be the one who lets her out first thing in the morning when her bladder is the most full and you come into the picture a little later? At least until the habit is broken?
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-19-2013, 12:14 AM
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Additionally, when you disciplined your pup (lets call it that for the time being) you kicked her out of the pack, in her mind. This behavior is seen all over the animal kingdom as a way of showing displeasure in a pack members behavior, and its normal. Even if in your case it was more aggressive than you are comfortable with, it was likely not as rough as an adult dog can get when they kick a pup out of the pack (unless you broke her bones or drew blood). The key to this behavior though is that you need to allow the pup to be excluded for a short spell (this exclusion teaches the lesson), then invite them back into the pack, and allow them to come back to you. Instead, it sounds like you ran back to her, which would not be the norm in nature and may have caused confusion in her mind. But I highly doubt that you caused any permanent damage.
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