Czech shepherd German shepherd? - German Shepherd Dog Forums

Increase font size: 0, 10, 25, 50%

GermanShepherds.com is the premier German Shepherd Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-22-2013, 11:21 AM   #1 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
DixieGSD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Idaho
Posts: 251
Question Czech shepherd German shepherd?

Sorry I don't know if this is the right spot or not... Anyways, my husband and I are looking into getting a working line shepherd I want to do protection training, tracking etc and was looking at working line German and Czech shepherds. I was wondering what is the difference between the Czech/German shepherds. Somebody told me they are 2 different dogs. I know Czech is used for border patrol, but aren't they still considered German shepherds? I am totally new to this, but this same person told me that only Czech shepherds are dark/black sable and german shepherds can not be. And I know color is not important, but I want a black sable they are just so gorgeous Just wondering if there was any truth to that. I have been trying to look up some threads on here on the subject, but can't seem to really find anything . Any info would be greatly appreciated
__________________
Bree

Dixie-Born 06-04-12
DixieGSD is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-22-2013, 11:25 AM   #2 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
elisabeth_00117's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario
Posts: 8,718
Default

German Shepherds are German Shepherds - Czech, West German, DDR... all working lines.

The most important thing is to do your research on each line, then find a breeder that is producing dogs that will SUIT YOUR LIFESTYLE. Be honest with yourself and your breeder in what you want and can handle.

There are some great threads on this forum that I suggest you read in the bloodline section as well as the puppy section on how to select a responsible breeder.
__________________
K-W German Shepherd Club
Wild Winds Archangel Raphael TT, HIC, DM Clear
G Wild Winds Zephyr of Cognac HIC, DM Clear

elisabeth_00117 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-22-2013, 11:26 AM   #3 (permalink)
Elite Member
 
Galathiel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: East Texas
Posts: 1,203
Default

I think most of what that 'body' told you is incorrect. I'm sure others will be have more info, but working lines come in sable..often!, not just dogs from the Czech Republic. They ARE German Shepherds, they're from a different region and have been raised with different criteria in mind (simplified version .. hopefully passably correct! ).
Galathiel is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-22-2013, 11:31 AM   #4 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
martemchik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,938
Default

They're all German Shepherds. A long time ago the Czech government created a kennel called pohranicni straze...which means border patrol. These dogs were raised and trained for that one job. There were some great bloodlines out of there and the only accepted a few outside studs/bitches every once in a while. They also only allowed a few dogs to be placed and bred (there were like 3 select Czech kennels from what I remember that would get the "washouts").

Recently this line has been very sought after for the "coolness" factor by the general public and also for their working ability by people that know what they're looking for. I've never actually seen one, so I can't really tell you what exactly is so special about them. Today I'm pretty sure the pohranicni straze kennel is a privately owned and run kennel that still produces some very excellent dogs.

My suggestion to you is that if you are interested in protection work or Schutzhund. Find a club or a training facility and check them out. See their dogs work, see what you like about some dogs, what you don't like about others. Reading online about the huge generalizations of the Czech, DDR, West German, ect lines isn't going to help you one bit until you actually see what people mean by prey drive, defense, hard/soft, strong/weak, ect. At a club you can really find the type of dog you want to work with and either ask that member where they got their dog, or see if they're going to be breeding that dog. You'll end up with the perfect dog for you that way.

I have a half DDR/West German dog...I thought my next one was going to be 100% DDR or Czech. After being at a club and seeing dogs work, I know exactly what bitch I want a puppy out of and she's west German WL. Doesn't matter to me one bit because I've seen her work and love everything about her. The generalizations about drive, maturity, ect when discussing the overall general line doesn't mean squat.
martemchik is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-22-2013, 11:36 AM   #5 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
martemchik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,938
Default

I wanted to add...I've met one guy at a dog park who after seeing my GSD decided to brag to me that his dog was "half border patrol dog and half German Shepherd" he also claimed that out of the liter of 10, 9 of the dogs are currently working at Guantanamo. My friends who don't know as much about working dogs and the military were all amazed...as soon as the guy walked away I calmly explained to them that "border patrol" are GSDs (pohranicni straze) and that the military has their own breeding program of Malanois that they use. A private breeder will never place 9 out of 10 dogs with the military the way it is set up today.

Don't get me wrong...he had a great dog. She was beautiful (black) and clearly had drive pouring out of her, maybe missing an off-switch though. But he was lied to about where his dog came from...most likely to drive up the price and make him feel better about himself when he told stories of what kind of dog he had. Sadly, my boy was probably everything that dog was and probably for $5000 less than what he paid. But hey...for $5000 he's got a great line of BS he can feed people.

That dog didn't look anything but GSD...I'm guessing the breeder didn't have papers and decided that this is how he would convince the owners of why the dogs had no papers.

Last edited by martemchik; 03-22-2013 at 11:43 AM.
martemchik is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-22-2013, 12:15 PM   #6 (permalink)
Master Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 542
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DixieGSD View Post
I was wondering what is the difference between the Czech/German shepherds. Somebody told me they are 2 different dogs. I know Czech is used for border patrol, but aren't they still considered German shepherds? I am totally new to this, but this same person told me that only Czech shepherds are dark/black sable and german shepherds can not be. And I know color is not important, but I want a black sable they are just so gorgeous Just wondering if there was any truth to that. I have been trying to look up some threads on here on the subject, but can't seem to really find anything . Any info would be greatly appreciated
The former Czechoslovakia has always had a large German population or people of German origin. Hence, it is no surprise that German shepherds have been around and been bred in that region even before World War II. However, GSDs are always GSDs if their ancestry can be traced to the German breed books from the start of the 20th century. For example, GSDs have been bred here in the US since before World War I but they are still GSDs no matter how many generations have been born in the US - there is no American shepherd.

When World War II ended, the former Czechoslovakia fell under the aegis of the Soviet bloc. So free commerce, including the breeding of dogs became a lot more restricted. To prevent ordinary citizens from escaping to the West, Czechoslovakia and East Germany (DDR) closed their borders and part of their tools was the GSD. So in fact, the GSD was unfortunately used as a tool for oppression. Of course, dogs have no sense of human morals and can be used by any government good or bad.

This emphasis on a particular job emphasized civil and sharp dogs in general. Understandably they wanted a dog that would bite a human without a second thought and could track through the forests. The closed borders meant that for 40 years (about 8 dog generations), Czechoslovakian bloodlines evolved differently from the rest of the world except for some influential studs brought in from East Germany. Not all the GSDs in Czechoslovakia were from the border patrol kennels. Individual citizens, private breeders, farmers, etc. owned GSDs as well.

The Iron Curtain fell in 1989, and the former Czechoslovakia devolved into two separate countries soon after. The dogs whose ancestry or part of their ancestry can be traced to bloodlines from these countries before 1989 are what we today refer to as "Czech type" German Shepherds. They are considered part of the larger working line population of GSDs (although there are also showline GSDs of Czech origin). Since then a lot of these bloodlines have been combined with West German working lines to produce a sportier dog more suitable for schutzhund and more manageable by the average American dog owner. The majority of GSDs imported to North America today to work as MWDs or police dogs are Czech or Slovakian.

Yes, most Czech GSDs come in sable but all the other GSd colors can also be found in those lines.

Last edited by Ocean; 03-22-2013 at 12:19 PM.
Ocean is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-22-2013, 12:43 PM   #7 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
Sunflowers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: The Sunshine State
Posts: 7,347
Default

Check this out-- some pictures, too.

Ehret German Shepherds - History
__________________
Norden von Narnia (Hans) DOB 1-15-2012
Sunflowers is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-22-2013, 01:55 PM   #8 (permalink)
Master Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 542
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunflowers View Post
Check this out-- some pictures, too.

Ehret German Shepherds - History
That info has not been updated. The Pohranicni Straze Kennel no longer exists.
Ocean is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-22-2013, 02:19 PM   #9 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
elisabeth_00117's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario
Posts: 8,718
Default

If you are interested in the Czech bloodline - go to the source.
__________________
K-W German Shepherd Club
Wild Winds Archangel Raphael TT, HIC, DM Clear
G Wild Winds Zephyr of Cognac HIC, DM Clear

elisabeth_00117 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-22-2013, 02:23 PM   #10 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
Sunflowers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: The Sunshine State
Posts: 7,347
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean View Post
That info has not been updated. The Pohranicni Straze Kennel no longer exists.
Correct. But I learned from that site.

Here is another site

Jinopo.CZ Czech, Slovak, DDR, East German K9 working dogs
__________________
Norden von Narnia (Hans) DOB 1-15-2012
Sunflowers is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:33 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
PetGuide.com
Basset.net DobermanTalk.com GoldenRetrieverForum.com OurBeagleWorld.com
BoxerForums.com DogForums.com GoPitbull.com PoodleForum.com
BulldogBreeds.com FishForums.com HavaneseForum.com SpoiledMaltese.com
CatForum.com GermanShepherds.com Labradoodle-dogs.net YorkieForum.com
Chihuahua-People.com RetrieverBreeds.com