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To rescue or to raise..THAT is the question

3K views 35 replies 15 participants last post by  zivagirl 
#1 · (Edited)

This is Bethsheba. She is a rescue the breeder is looking to find a home for.
Our original plan was to adopt one of the breeder's puppies. We've even named her Ziva. I've shared pictures of her here. But during my last visit, I met Bethsheba.

When she was found, she was in a crate that wouldn't allow her to stand upright - and the muscles in her hind quarters atrophied. According to the vet, there is no permanent physical damage. Lots of exercise and massage should fix her up right as rain.

Breeder opened the pen door, and Beth came running straight for me, sat by my side, looked up at me with loads of adoration...and peed like a racehorse.

This isn't an accident - Beth is a happy pee'er. She's a sad pee'er. A fearful pee'er.

She heels well on leash. I believe she'll do anything I want with a little patience, and lots of love.

She's not a huge fan of men and cringes in their presence.

I don't want an outdoor dog. I want our dog to live indoors with us, enjoy the outdoor pen we have (roughly 20X25) for play, and lots of walks/running/hiking.

What are the odds I can help her with her peeing problem?

* Edit - title should read: Raise a rescue or a puppy - THAT is the question. I don't think I could afford to raise TWO big girls!
 
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#2 ·
If the pen was not on dirt, she may have let go as she doesn't like peeing on concrete. This is typical of dogs.
I think you could make a lot of progress by ignoring the issue, greetings LOW key (no high happy voices, etc.) and making sure she goes outside often, for starters.
 
#7 ·
She peed indoors when she came to me....then just wanted to walk and sniff when we got outside. She'd already had her outside play a couple of hours earlier. Their 'stable' is on cement - indoors, as it is SO cold out, these days.

I greeted her quietly, avoided petting her head. I slipped the lead on, and gave the command, 'Beth - heel'. I was surprised at how readily she fell in line.
 
#5 ·
I had an excited peer once. It was driving me nuts. He was a hyper dog. Initially I tried low key, soothing greetings (as I know many people who have had success with this method) but, no matter how calm I was, he was really excited! The peeing was endless. So finally what I would do whenever I came home was walk right past him without saying a word or acknowledging him, walk out the back door with him, sit down in a chair I kept outside and, then would excitedly love him up. He quickly learned that outside in front of that chair is where he needed to be and, where we said hello. He was so determined to get to that spot that he didn't have time to stop and, be excited enough to pee. Then he could pee all he wanted with out driving me crazy.
There are so many ways to deal with emotional pee. (ha! Sorry, sounds hilarious!)
Puppy's have so much life ahead of them and, this beautiful girl seems to have had so much time taken from her in a hard way. If you can offer her the love and, quality of life she's been missing all this time, I say go for it. I'll mail you a swiffer mop to help keep you sane :wub:
 
#6 ·
OMG, Fynn&Vandy...at first glance, I read that as you were an excited peer once. :lol:

Can you believe she's been through all of that and she's not even a year old, yet? The breeder would LOVE for us to take both. She first suggested fostering, but quickly adds how lovely it would be for Beth to have a little sister bouncing about (Ziva).
 
#8 ·
I am not liking what your breeder is trying to do to you.

Two dogs are great, but, two females can get you into a heap of trouble and not because either dog is bad or anything you might do wrong. It is just that two females, especially close in age will PROBABLY have issues with each other as they get to the point of sexual maturity.

The thing is your bitch and pup will do great together (probably) until the pup is between 9 and 18 months old. Then it will really depend on their make up. If the older/bigger dog is naturally more submissive and the younger dog is naturally more dominant in pack order, chances are there will be a change in status in the pack and it can be very ugly. Even if the older bitch is more submissive, she may not want the pup jumping on top of her, and exerting her dominance, and if she fights it will be bloody and it may not be the end of it either.

WHENEVER YOU GET TWO FEMALES THERE IS A POSSIBILITY THAT THEY WILL HAVE TO BE SEPARATED FOREVER. That means crate/rotate forever. And one minor slip up can mean a bloody fight where everyone (including the human) requires medical care.

If you have 6 or more years of difference in age and the pup is raised from baby puppy on with the bitch it may simply work out.

The thing is, you really can't tell, not at 8 weeks, not at 6 months, not at 12 months whether or not your bitches will get along. So if you are not willing to crate/rotate forever, then maybe it would be best to go with a male pup.

I think that if you like the yearling female, you should go for it, so long as the breeder is not going to charge an arm and a leg for her. The pee thing might get better. It may be something that you end up medicating for. I am glad that she is being honest about the problem. If you are concerned about that and your indoor dog, then maybe it is best to just pass on her.
 
#9 ·
I think that if you like the yearling female, you should go for it, so long as the breeder is not going to charge an arm and a leg for her. The pee thing might get better. It may be something that you end up medicating for. I am glad that she is being honest about the problem. If you are concerned about that and your indoor dog, then maybe it is best to just pass on her.
The breeder just wants a home for Beth. No charge. She is my son's landlord. :)

And the pup (only 2 wks old) - she wanted us to keep as bloodstock with contract.

I seriously think if we take Beth out of a 'stable' situation into our home/back pen - she'll come around. I could be deluding myself, but my gut says she is recoverable.
 
#11 ·
Stable? Do you mean, Kennel?

She probably is. But, that does not mean you should go into this with 2 bitch pups.

A dog with special needs like this will need the same kind of training and socialization that the pup needs. Even if she is good on lead, to get her used to the world outside, you should take her to classes and regular walks. This should be done one on one. 2 puppies at once is more than double the work. Though, it can also be highly rewarding, and if you work outside the home, even if they are crated during that time (should be separated if you cannot supervise) the fact that the other dog is there, will make that easier on them.

Evenso, if you want to do two and you are not afraid of the more than double the work, then ask the breeder if she has a male.

I am not sure what you mean by bloodstock with contract. Are you raising this female puppy to be a breeding bitch then?

It can be done, but you have to walk into it with your eyes open, and if there is a problem you will have to be willing to keep them separated for life. Pet owners may not be set up or ready for this. Breeders pretty much have to be.

Good luck in whatever you decide.
 
#13 ·
Selzer - there is no way I would take on two GSDs. It will definitely be an either/or deal.
I would co-own the little pup (if I choose to go that route), with the breeder retaining breeding rights into her 7th year with a maximum of 5 attempts to impregnate. There's more, but that's the crux of it.

The more I think about it, the more I believe the rescue is the way to go.
 
#17 ·
I don't only feel like she liked me. I feel like she picked me - and my reaction to her was visceral. The babies.....sure, they're cute. Adorable. Loveable. Easy to love.

This girl is all of those things - but she also has a voice.

She comes home on Tuesday.
 
#18 ·
I have seen dogs pick people. And, my heart-dog picked me, yes, that was as a puppy but it really didn't matter that dog picked me and I have never regretted it.

I am glad you are going with her.
 
#22 ·
good choice (no choice, lolol???)...hoping everything goes wonderfully for you!
 
#23 ·
Yay!! When I was fostering pit bulls, I saw one of the pups choose her human. It was amazing. The pup was Dinah and she was snow white and sweet, sweet, sweet! I was really wanting to keep her but I got an application from a family. I arranged to meet them at Dinah's puppy class and the moment that Dinah laid eyes on them it was a done deal. It was as though she recognized them.

In answer to your question, Havoc was 8 weeks when I brought him home. He pooped in the house once and pee'd on a throw rug a few times. He was from a very good breeder and already had an idea that one should "go" outside. Tempest is a rehomed pit that probably was my most frustrating house train. She gathered that she should go through a doorway to eliminate but didn't grasp that the door should go outside.
 
#27 ·
Congrats on your new dog!

FWIW, my eskie used to be a submissive pee-r. She was given to me because the last owner hated the peeing.

She did grow out of it naturally once she moved in to my home. I can't say I'd guarantee that result for every dog with this issue, but she proves that it CAN happen!
 
#28 ·
I have been doing a lot of research, a lot of question asking. Generally speaking, removing a rescue from a kennel setting often works as a reset.

Either way, we're going to deal with accidents.
 
#29 ·
I got a foster who was 8 and had lived in an outdoor kennel all her life. She's the black GSD in my avatar. She never left (foster failure but she was also not a pet dog for a pet home due to temperament issues) until it was her time to go. I had her for 3 years, 9 months (not long enough!) and she was super conscientious about doing potty outdoors only. It may not be the case at first with the peeing she's doing, and obviously each dog is different, but Nina didn't like to go outside at all. Ever. She'd had enough! If it was rainy, she would go out 2x a day! And held it!

My Bella GSD was a nervous pee'r and I have a nervous pooper - so it can be worse! ;) The nervous pooper for about 2 years I didn't move my arms or raise my voice. :rofl: Talk about conditioning behavior! I was very well trained not to do anything that would empty out her colon pocket - she wasn't even that bad, I just didn't want to freak her out. She will learn that she doesn't need to do it when she sees how patient you are.

I would join the Yahoo shyk9 group - the archives alone are worth making up an account.

Congrats to you and to her! Puppies are nice but you will find that you are in a partnership with an adult dog and bond with them in such a great way!
 
#31 ·
I too don't like the sound of this breeder, in the fact that you (please, no offense) don't seem like a super experienced home in the fact that you're not positive how to deal with a rescue that has a few problems. So for a breeder to want you to take a rescue dog under a year old AND a new puppy... doesn't sound like a good situation for MOST (if not all) german shepherd owners. It is almost NEVER recommended to take 2 puppies home at once, and that would basically be what you would be doing here.

I think you need to think long and hard about your reasons for wanting a puppy. I want a puppy from a trusted breeder because I don't want to deal with problems like a neglected dog or a fearful adult dog that pees itself. Personal preference. My Luther use to urinate when he was excited and scared, and for the most part it cleared up but he still did it from time to time. Thankfully we have wood floors, so easy cleanup. When I had carpets I invested in a small shampooer. She's young, and good looking, and there are plenty of ways to try to prevent urination.

Because of my comments above about my thoughts on this breeder, I would say go with the rescue because I would not want a dog produced from a breeder I didn't trust, and I would not want to financially support a breeder I didn't support. That being said, if you want a puppy to AVOID the problems that could be associated with an older rescue dog, I would personally want to find a new breeder.

I would NOT take both dogs home.
 
#32 ·
Back in the late 80's I adopted Yukon, a 15 month old abused WGSD who "wasn't housebroken". After I got him the only time he ever had an accident in the house was when he had a bladder infection, the lake sized puddle was by the back door where he tried his best to go outside, and when he was a senior citizen, after he was put on a large does of Pred to help control the Polymyoitis that was taking his life ... as he lost muscle tone/coordination he couldn't help himself.
 
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