Taking the value out of a dog

[KristiM]

Sorry for confusing everyone. I was the one who brought up agility/flyball, suggesting it would likely be a lot easier to find a sport home for a competition quality dog in an agility or flyball home because people in those venues would care a lot less about a dog being altered. Mrs. K came back with those JUST being "recreational" sports and that schutzhund is a whole other ball game. I pointed out that was complete crap, to compete in agility or flyball takes the same amount of dedication and time as schutzhund. There is nothing unique about the commitment in schutzhund.

Thats how the "other" sports came into the topic. My apologies, was this thread even about schutzhund? Or was it about altering competitive dogs? I guess I should just keep my mouth shut because I am kinda confused about the whole intent of the thread in the first place, saying that a spayed dog holds no value for breeding is like saying black is dark (uh...yeah)

[Jack's Dad]

I think it's actually a covered over S/N thread.

[msvette2u]

Originally Posted by KristiM

Sorry for confusing everyone. I was the one who brought up agility/flyball, suggesting it would likely be a lot easier to find a sport home for a competition quality dog in an agility or flyball home because people in those venues would care a lot less about a dog being altered. Mrs. K came back with those JUST being "recreational" sports and that schutzhund is a whole other ball game. I pointed out that was complete crap, to compete in agility or flyball takes the same amount of dedication and time as schutzhund. There is nothing unique about the commitment in schutzhund.

Thats how the "other" sports came into the topic. My apologies, was this thread even about schutzhund? Or was it about altering competitive dogs? I guess I should just keep my mouth shut because I am kinda confused about the whole intent of the thread in the first place, saying that a spayed dog holds no value for breeding is like saying black is dark (uh...yeah)

to the entire post
Schutzhund is different but only in terms of what they do, not the amount of dedication or the fact there's (seemingly) fanatics or very serious competitors in all dog sports

[msvette2u]

Originally Posted by martemchik

So they don't even want to take the time to do all the training with it.

I'm curious if this is overall true, or if a top dog (even altered), who had everything it took to get to the top ranks of Schutzhund would be desirable and sought after and "valued", whereas a ho-hum dog would need to be intact to be desirable?

[Mrs.K]

Originally Posted by KristiM

Sorry for confusing everyone. I was the one who brought up agility/flyball, suggesting it would likely be a lot easier to find a sport home for a competition quality dog in an agility or flyball home because people in those venues would care a lot less about a dog being altered. Mrs. K came back with those JUST being "recreational" sports and that schutzhund is a whole other ball game. I pointed out that was complete crap, to compete in agility or flyball takes the same amount of dedication and time as schutzhund. There is nothing unique about the commitment in schutzhund.

Thats how the "other" sports came into the topic. My apologies, was this thread even about schutzhund? Or was it about altering competitive dogs? I guess I should just keep my mouth shut because I am kinda confused about the whole intent of the thread in the first place, saying that a spayed dog holds no value for breeding is like saying black is dark (uh...yeah)

It is a different ball game. Not dedication or commitment wise, that is not what I was referring to but it IS a different ball-game and the attitude in Schutzhund is different from Flyball/Agility. Especially over in Germany and just add a couple of oldtimers and you are on a complete different planet!

[RowdyDogs]

Originally Posted by KristiM

Sorry for confusing everyone. I was the one who brought up agility/flyball, suggesting it would likely be a lot easier to find a sport home for a competition quality dog in an agility or flyball home because people in those venues would care a lot less about a dog being altered. Mrs. K came back with those JUST being "recreational" sports and that schutzhund is a whole other ball game. I pointed out that was complete crap, to compete in agility or flyball takes the same amount of dedication and time as schutzhund. There is nothing unique about the commitment in schutzhund.

Thats how the "other" sports came into the topic. My apologies, was this thread even about schutzhund? Or was it about altering competitive dogs? I guess I should just keep my mouth shut because I am kinda confused about the whole intent of the thread in the first place, saying that a spayed dog holds no value for breeding is like saying black is dark (uh...yeah)

FWIW, I didn't think your post or the discussion of other sports was off-topic--the OP did just talk about rehoming "working dogs," and while she mentioned Schutzhund, I didn't think she was just referring to that. So if you misunderstood, so did I!

I think the comparison of the different attitudes towards breeding and desexing in the various sporting and working communities is far more interesting than another topic just about whether to spay/neuter, personally. I do think that SchH folks do tend to have a different attitude towards their sport than a lot of other sporting communities do, which is really interesting to me. I don't think it's more dedication or that SchH is cooler than other work, though...it's just about personal interest and what you want to do with your dog. So anyway, I've been enjoying the discussion quite a bit, though I'd be happy to take it to another thread if it's too much of a derail.

I do also want to add that while I can't see the value of a border collie/pit bull cross for, well, anything (and I've met a few...they're nice dogs but not what I would think of as a sport prospect), I have known some herding dog breeders who do intentionally crossbreed dogs. All the ones I know are actual working ranchers who are usually mostly breeding to create dogs for their own use, and it's not like they're trying to start a new breed or anything. The puppies I've known from those litters have all been herding machines and very nice dogs.

But while I'm not inherently opposed to intentionally crossbreeding dogs for a specific purpose like that, I think that the vast majority of the time it is just some nutter who doesn't understand the first thing about breeding animals so it's not something I'd encourage either.

[msvette2u]

To speak to crossbreeding, I think it's people's notions that...Dog breed A is good at this and so is Dog Breed B, so let's mix them and get...SUPER DOG!

[Liesje]

Originally Posted by RowdyDogs

I do also want to add that while I can't see the value of a border collie/pit bull cross for, well, anything (and I've met a few...they're nice dogs but not what I would think of as a sport prospect),

I don't know if it matters (I'm not a bully breed person) but a "Border Staffy", if that's what you are talking about, is not a pit cross, it's a Staffy cross. At least, I have not seen it done with a pit bull (or American Pit Bull Terrier). I don't know all the differences between the two but I'm guessing the bully breed people would object.

[RowdyDogs]

edit: ^^^I was referring to a previous poster who implied that they were breeding pit bulls with border collies and just claiming the dog was a Staffy, which is a common thing to do in my area (calling pits Staffies, not the breeding). I'm not a bully breed person either but I have several friends who are, so I do know the difference and wouldn't want to offend anyone. I have not personally seen a "Border Staffy," but I have seen a couple of accidental and one intentional mating between bully breeds and BCs. The intentional one was between an APBT and a BC, the others were between more generic pits and registered BCs. I didn't know that Border Staffies were a thing, though, I must admit, though according to Google they are! You learn something new every day.

Originally Posted by msvette2u

To speak to crossbreeding, I think it's people's notions that...Dog breed A is good at this and so is Dog Breed B, so let's mix them and get...SUPER DOG!

Yeah, exactly. The instances I'm thinking about that I don't have a problem with are usually carefully considered and the dogs are somewhat similar breeds (the big one in my area is border collie/ACD crosses, and border collies were a major breed used in developing the ACD), and it's more about the individual dogs than crossing the breeds, if that makes sense. It's still a gamble in a genetic sense, but if the person knows what they're doing, it can create some cool dogs.

Usually, though, it's exactly what you describe--a kooky person who doesn't have the slightest clue about genetics trying to create a super dog, or some yahoo who decides to create a new breed for money or fame or some less obvious reason. People get some weird ideas about how genetics work.

[Mrs.K]

Originally Posted by RowdyDogs

FWIW, I didn't think your post or the discussion of other sports was off-topic--the OP did just talk about rehoming "working dogs," and while she mentioned Schutzhund, I didn't think she was just referring to that. So if you misunderstood, so did I!

I think the comparison of the different attitudes towards breeding and desexing in the various sporting and working communities is far more interesting than another topic just about whether to spay/neuter, personally. I do think that SchH folks do tend to have a different attitude towards their sport than a lot of other sporting communities do, which is really interesting to me. I don't think it's more dedication or that SchH is cooler than other work, though...it's just about personal interest and what you want to do with your dog. So anyway, I've been enjoying the discussion quite a bit, though I'd be happy to take it to another thread if it's too much of a derail.

I do also want to add that while I can't see the value of a border collie/pit bull cross for, well, anything (and I've met a few...they're nice dogs but not what I would think of as a sport prospect), I have known some herding dog breeders who do intentionally crossbreed dogs. All the ones I know are actual working ranchers who are usually mostly breeding to create dogs for their own use, and it's not like they're trying to start a new breed or anything. The puppies I've known from those litters have all been herding machines and very nice dogs.

But while I'm not inherently opposed to intentionally crossbreeding dogs for a specific purpose like that, I think that the vast majority of the time it is just some nutter who doesn't understand the first thing about breeding animals so it's not something I'd encourage either.

You did not misunderstand