Taking the value out of a dog

[Liesje]

Yeah, so, likely NOT someone that's really on the up-and-up as far as Schutzhund goes. Like martemchik said SchH people are really into their breed. No one breeds mixes FOR SchH. Some people do it with a mix but that's different. It's mostly GSDs, since it's a GSD breed test. Some Mali people think they can do better and sometimes they do

[ayoitzrimz]

Originally Posted by msvette2u

Oh he went to prison for raping his (male) employee. We never found out about any of it until a few months after we adopted that dog, or we'd never have done it. Full disclosure was not made
That is, the reason for rescue stepping in for the dogs was the dude was in prison. We only found out when we scanned him and learned who purchased the chip.

And you use this guy as an example of "SchH people". I think that's what irks Lies (but I am not her, and can't speak for her) and others. crappy people exist in all avenues of life, not just in the schutzhund world.

[msvette2u]

Well my point was, I knew flyball people did, but I don't know of incidents other than the breeder of that dog, he was attempting to "create" a new breed. It does seem that folks who do that would use the excuse "all purebreds were mixed at some point".

Did anyone see me use THAT as an example?? No, only when Lies asked, and if you re-read my ORIGINAL post on that you'd see I said "heck, Sch people may do it", but I didn't say "this is the be -all and end-all of Sch people/trainers". Sheesh. Some of you can't wait to take offense at anything I say!

My *very* simple statement on Sch was "heck maybe Sch people do it too", because flyball people seem to have no issue with it.

[msvette2u]

Those are some, um, interesting people. Where we eschew backyard breeding, they advocate mixing breeds such as border collies with pit bulls (oops, Am Staffs) to create "the ultimate flyball dog". That's just one of the breeds they tinker with.
Maybe Sch people do it too, heck, maybe all sports do ...but I still feel it's not responsible to do it.
A few yrs. go we adopted a dog we only later found out was used for Sch, he was a GSD x Dutch. Very unstable dog, not necessarily result of mixing the breeds but the guy was a nutjob The dogs he used had sketchy and unstable temperaments.

And I gave but one example!
Now I'm not that stupid to think everyone does idiotic things like that, but perhaps some on the fringe think it's okay or preferable to try to create "the ultimate" dog.

Like...a shortcut to working with one breed to create excellence.

[Mrs.K]

The only legitimate working dog mix I know of is the X-Mechelaar.

[Liesje]

Originally Posted by msvette2u

Well my point was, I knew flyball people did, but I don't know of incidents other than the breeder of that dog, he was attempting to "create" a new breed. It does seem that folks who do that would use the excuse "all purebreds were mixed at some point".

Did anyone see me use THAT as an example?? No, only when Lies asked, and if you re-read my ORIGINAL post on that you'd see I said "heck, Sch people may do it", but I didn't say "this is the be -all and end-all of Sch people/trainers". Sheesh. Some of you can't wait to take offense at anything I say!

My *very* simple statement on Sch was "heck maybe Sch people do it too", because flyball people seem to have no issue with it.

I'm sorry, I'm so lost.... what does flyball have to do with Sandra's post? I don't think she ever did flyball, and there is already a thread on what you are trying to bring up (which has nothing to do with the point here).

SchH is a breed assessment for GSDs, so no GSDs should not be mixed with other breeds in order to create some sort of SchH super-breed because GSDs are *already* the SchH super-breed.

[msvette2u]

Since, on page 6 and 7, flyball was discussed, even by you?? And someone said Sch was "the most serious" of all the sports and I'm like, wow, some flyball people are really REALLY into "their sport"??

[msvette2u]

Originally Posted by Liesje

True, but I do agree with her that doing flyball or agility even at a novice level requires much more time and a more deliberately conditioned dog than doing club level SchH, even with my show line dog that hasn't been super easy to title in SchH. For flyball we compete once a month and that's just as people who have fun (we aren't real competitive and don't host tournaments) but I haven't done a SchH title (not counting BH and ADs) in a year.

BTW add me to "confused".
I'm not sure if MrsK is angry because her dogs are spayed, or if spaying completely devalues the dogs, if her dogs aren't spayed, if she got more $$ (or could have) had they been intact, or just is against s/n in general

[martemchik]

Originally Posted by msvette2u

BTW add me to "confused".
I'm not sure if MrsK is angry because her dogs are spayed, or if spaying completely devalues the dogs, if her dogs aren't spayed, if she got more $$ (or could have) had they been intact, or just is against s/n in general

It actually has nothing to do with money...

The value is perceived or intrinsic. The dogs just can't find homes if they're altered. So people that have a dog that is "washed up" or just not up to the "expert handlers" standard has a hard time finding a home if they are altered...but if they weren't fixed, they'd have a bunch of people jumping at the opportunity to get this dog...even free of charge is how I read into it.

So the inference is that Schutzhund people don't have the want to deal with a dog that is altered...my guess is because at the end of years of training/trialing there is no chance of passing on genes due to the "mistake" or decision that someone else made by altering a very good dog. So they don't even want to take the time to do all the training with it.

[Liesje]

^ In short, pretty much, though it's not really that they *can't* find homes if they are altered, but they just generally aren't altered. Unless someone is selling or rehoming a retired dog, which I don't really think is what she was talking about. Green dogs and young dogs generally are not altered because there is no reason *to* alter them at that age, and not just because some people see them as breeding machines.