Taking the value out of a dog - Page 2 - German Shepherd Dog Forums

Increase font size: 0, 10, 25, 50%

GermanShepherds.com is the premier German Shepherd Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-14-2013, 02:31 PM   #11 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
Jax08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NNE PA
Posts: 22,160
Default

It seems to me that you might be taking this thread a bit personally and I'm not going to get into an argument because what I'm saying is being twisted. Sandra is referring to the animals losing value because they can not reproduce, along with that are the people that only place value on animals if they are winning.

I clearly stated that not all people in animal sports view animals that way. Nobody, not in any post on this thread, implied that selling a dog means the dog has no value. Not in any sentence at all was that implied.
__________________


~The strength of one's opinion should not exceed their knowledge on the matter~
Jax08 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-14-2013, 02:37 PM   #12 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 18,693
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax08 View Post
That priority is a fault in us and how we view living, breathing, animals as things with a "value" other than just the value of life.
This is what I don't get. Why is it wrong/faulty to assess the value of an animal? Why spay/neuter something you aren't going to own, just because?
__________________
Coke (All-American 7/7/06)
Nikon (GSD 9/7/08)
Indy (All-American 5/10/12)
Legend (GSD 10/22/13)
Rainbow Bridge Kenya (GSD)

Liesje is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-14-2013, 02:47 PM   #13 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
Shade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 7,068
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liesje View Post
This is what I don't get. Why is it wrong/faulty to assess the value of an animal? Why spay/neuter something you aren't going to own, just because?
Are you referring to my post or just in general?

If mine, I already gave my top two reasons: Easier to rehome and to prevent irresponsible breeding. Those aren't "just because" reasons

Even breeding females of top breeders if sold to pet homes can require either the breeder or new owner to spay. That doesn't lessen the value in any way to the right home where they are to be retired
__________________
Shanna

My Pack:

Jasmine - Female Miniature Poodle - born Aug 15, 2010
Loker Delgado Von Stalworth - Male GSD - born Jan 26, 2012
Koda & Zazu - 5 year old male cats
Alex - Male Cocker Spaniel (rescue) - RIP Cuddlebug 2007-2010
Shade is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-14-2013, 02:49 PM   #14 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 18,693
Default

But that's retired dogs. What about a young dog, not even physically mature (not yet breed surveyed)? I guess if I didn't trust the buyer I just wouldn't sell the dog, period. If the dog is young, breeding quality, then it should be up to the buyer (and/or any conditions that still apply from the original contract) whether or not the dog is altered as part of the sale. I wouldn't neuter a really nice dog just in case. That does as much damaged to the already diluted gene pool.
__________________
Coke (All-American 7/7/06)
Nikon (GSD 9/7/08)
Indy (All-American 5/10/12)
Legend (GSD 10/22/13)
Rainbow Bridge Kenya (GSD)

Liesje is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-14-2013, 02:55 PM   #15 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
RowdyDogs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 458
Default

I don't have a problem with placing financial value on an animal (clearly, since as I said I do it routinely as part of my job), but I would agree with Jax's statement. I don't think a family mutt has less inherent value than a GSD with impeccable bloodlines and a Schutzhund title. That doesn't mean the GSD's owner is wrong to place a price on the value of their dog, but the mutt is still worth something beyond money, you know? It's two very different ways of assessing value.

I don't know if this is how Jax meant it, but I interpreted that statement to just mean that every animal deserves a good life, regardless of its price tag. The financial value of a dog is something that's kind of made up anyway--look at pit bulls bred for fighting, for example (I can think of many more in the horse industry--the entire US Arabian industry is a cautionary tale about this--but I'm trying to stay away from the horse analogies ).

As far as desexing a dog before rehoming it, I have a hard time criticizing people for that too. Back when I first got my GSD and was trying to rehome him (I found him as a stray and didn't want another dog at the time, but he grew on me after a couple of months ), I interviewed several people who seemed great at first but who I eventually discovered intended to breed him--despite the fact that, being a stray, he has no papers, and that GSD experts even disagree on whether he's actually even purebred! But he looks purebred for the most part (in person, most GSD people think he is, but his photographs incite more disagreement), and they didn't care. Some of these people were even involved in dog sports and like I said, seemed like perfect homes.

Now, Hector clearly wasn't a proven working or sporting dog at that point, but the experience would make me very leery about rehoming an intact animal unless I knew the person they were going to very well. I suspect some of it has to do with the amount of contacts the individual has in the dog world too...I personally didn't have any and still have relatively few, so it's harder for me to reliably vet potential homes. A more experienced and involved owner (someone who is actively involved with sporting, working or breed organizations, I mean) and knows a lot of people might feel a lot more confident rehoming an intact dog.

edit: I do agree with your above post, Liesje. I guess my whole point is that it is very situational and I don't really think anyone should be judged too harshly for their decision about this kind of thing, as long as they're being as responsible as they can. Like I said previously, the only time I really judge is when someone leaves a dog intact and doesn't manage it responsibly, or if they knowingly sold a dog to a puppy mill, something like that.
__________________
The rowdy dogs:
Hector-2 y/o GSD (mix?) rescue
Scooter-12 y/o ACD/Border Collie mix
Bandit-8 y/o ACD
Wooby-14 y/o ACD
Abutiu "Abi"-ACD puppy and hopeful future SAR dog!

Last edited by RowdyDogs; 01-14-2013 at 02:58 PM.
RowdyDogs is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-14-2013, 02:59 PM   #16 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
Shade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 7,068
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liesje View Post
But that's retired dogs. What about a young dog, not even physically mature (not yet breed surveyed)? I guess if I didn't trust the buyer I just wouldn't sell the dog, period. If the dog is young, breeding quality, then it should be up to the buyer (and/or any conditions that still apply from the original contract) whether or not the dog is altered as part of the sale. I wouldn't neuter a really nice dog just in case. That does as much damaged to the already diluted gene pool.
Oh I agree mostly but the percentage of truly breed worthy dogs is as slim as proper working homes. If every GSD was kept intact "just in case" we'd end up with a lot more oops litters and bad breedings which would be just as damaging to the gene pool would it not?
__________________
Shanna

My Pack:

Jasmine - Female Miniature Poodle - born Aug 15, 2010
Loker Delgado Von Stalworth - Male GSD - born Jan 26, 2012
Koda & Zazu - 5 year old male cats
Alex - Male Cocker Spaniel (rescue) - RIP Cuddlebug 2007-2010
Shade is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-14-2013, 03:02 PM   #17 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 18,693
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shade View Post
Oh I agree mostly but the percentage of truly breed worthy dogs is as slim as proper working homes. If every GSD was kept intact "just in case" we'd end up with a lot more oops litters and bad breedings which would be just as damaging to the gene pool would it not?
Dunno, the gene pool is pretty crap already!!
__________________
Coke (All-American 7/7/06)
Nikon (GSD 9/7/08)
Indy (All-American 5/10/12)
Legend (GSD 10/22/13)
Rainbow Bridge Kenya (GSD)

Liesje is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-14-2013, 03:49 PM   #18 (permalink)
Master Member
 
KristiM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 752
Default

I'm not sure I really understand the intent of this thread...saying that it is tough to place a sport dog that is spayed in a home where they may want to breed is a pretty obvious satement isn't it?

As far as finding a sport home for a competition quality (sterilized) dog, one may have more luck with the flyball/agility community. I find that they would care a lot less about that, I know several people that have taken dogs (with the intent for high level agility/flyball competition) and the dogs had been spayed or neutered already. I'm not trying to bash one sport community vs the other, it just seems WAY more common to have spayed or neutered dogs competing in these venues.
__________________
Odin ~ (aka "Dude") Bh, AADC, SGDC, NAC, WV-N, TG-N, FDCh-G (GSD)
Zuri ~ German Coolie, super pup in training

Havoc ~ (aka "Super") GSD - Rest easy buddy.
Keeper (rest in peace little stinker) (Aussie)
KristiM is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-14-2013, 04:09 PM   #19 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 18,693
Default

Flyball too. Someone on my team will never stop commenting on my dog's nads, it's kind of gross/annoying, lol. I'm guessing it's far more opportunistic to have a flyball or agility dog altered (especially spayed) because we are usually competing at least once a month, even those of us who just do it recreationally and not for serious competition, whereas even those who have decades of SchH experience and have titled many dogs might only trial a few times a year. Some performance events will not even allow females in heat, whereas in SchH they will do quite a bit to accommodate them.
__________________
Coke (All-American 7/7/06)
Nikon (GSD 9/7/08)
Indy (All-American 5/10/12)
Legend (GSD 10/22/13)
Rainbow Bridge Kenya (GSD)

Liesje is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-14-2013, 04:18 PM   #20 (permalink)
Master Member
 
KristiM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 752
Default

Lol, I get stuck calling all the agility dogs girls because they are all missing their nads! In schutzhund ALL of the boys were intact, at agility I would say maybe 10% are intact. As far as I know you can't compete in agility with a female in heat. That could really suck if your "top dog" came into season during regionals or nationals...


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App
__________________
Odin ~ (aka "Dude") Bh, AADC, SGDC, NAC, WV-N, TG-N, FDCh-G (GSD)
Zuri ~ German Coolie, super pup in training

Havoc ~ (aka "Super") GSD - Rest easy buddy.
Keeper (rest in peace little stinker) (Aussie)
KristiM is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:37 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
PetGuide.com
Basset.net DobermanTalk.com GoldenRetrieverForum.com OurBeagleWorld.com
BoxerForums.com DogForums.com GoPitbull.com PoodleForum.com
BulldogBreeds.com FishForums.com HavaneseForum.com SpoiledMaltese.com
CatForum.com GermanShepherds.com Labradoodle-dogs.net YorkieForum.com
Chihuahua-People.com RetrieverBreeds.com