pack theory oroginal papers?

[Chicagocanine]

Originally Posted by nitemares

I was 12 when that happened and i always thought dogs were a domesticated version of wolves and science haven't caught up yet

Ok so in that case, what is your basis for whether you believe an organism is descended from another species/subgroup/whatever or not? Just whether you personally think they are the same(no matter what evidence says)? At first you said it was because dogs are a subspecies of wolves, but now you say you already knew they were even before they were classified as such, so you are obviously not going by that. So I'm confused.

[carmspack]

I know one of the researchers that worked on the genomic study -- Here is the canine version -- The canine genome

German Shepherds belonged to the "mastiff type" .

[codmaster]

Originally Posted by RowdyDogs

Mustangs are preyed upon by mountain lions so no go there.

Have you ever seen a real African Lion? No comparison to a NA mountain lion! Which would you rather live near?

Besides being a lot smaller and weaker, mountain lions hunt by themselves (as far as I know) while real Lions seem to hunt in Prides!

[Carriesue]

Originally Posted by codmaster

Have you ever seen a real African Lion? No comparison to a NA mountain lion! Which would you rather live near?

Besides being a lot smaller and weaker, mountain lions hunt by themselves (as far as I know) while real Lions seem to hunt in Prides!

I don't think what they're being hunted by would have any determination on how "wild" they are... Unless you're joking.

[codmaster]

Originally Posted by carriesue

i don't think what they're being hunted by would have any determination on how "wild" they are... unless you're joking.

yes!

[codmaster]

But it might impact the species "Evolution" only specimens who can avoid the predators will be able to breen very much!

[nitemares]

Originally Posted by Chicagocanine

You do know that dogs were only recently reclassified as a subspecies of wolves, right? Before, they were considered a separate species. So before that, did you think that dogs were not descended from wolves?

Originally Posted by Chicagocanine

Ok so in that case, what is your basis for whether you believe an organism is descended from another species/subgroup/whatever or not? Just whether you personally think they are the same(no matter what evidence says)? At first you said it was because dogs are a subspecies of wolves, but now you say you already knew they were even before they were classified as such, so you are obviously not going by that. So I'm confused.

Chicagocanine my second part of the sentences was meant as a joke, before the age of 12 I had no idea there was such a thing called taxonomy. if i remember correctly we studied taxonomy in school at the age of 14. So what i'm saying is i grew up knowing dogs are a subspecies.

As a kid though growing with GSDs i couldn't help but believe that they were tamed wolves because of their appearance. the breed is even called wolf in my country, they only recently started calling them GSDs.

as for the original OPs question, i'd love to read some scientific papers on pack theory too either for or against.

[RowdyDogs]

Originally Posted by codmaster

Have you ever seen a real African Lion? No comparison to a NA mountain lion! Which would you rather live near?

Besides being a lot smaller and weaker, mountain lions hunt by themselves (as far as I know) while real Lions seem to hunt in Prides!

LOL that is a good point...but I have been stalked by a mountain lion and I gotta say, when you know one is around trying to figure out if it wants to eat you or not, they get a lot bigger and scarier!

[codmaster]

Originally Posted by RowdyDogs

LOL that is a good point...but I have been stalked by a mountain lion and I gotta say, when you know one is around trying to figure out if it wants to eat you or not, they get a lot bigger and scarier!

Heh! Heh! Very true!

[hunterisgreat]

Originally Posted by ayoitzrimz

Dogs are 99.8% genetically equivalent to wolves. They can freely inter-breed. For the record, humans and chimps (our closest relatives) cannot inter-breed. If they didn't come from wolves, where exactly did they come from? And for the record humans did not evolve from chimps. We had a common ancestor millions of years ago but did not directly "evolve" from chimps.

Now, pack theory, alpha leader, and all that junk - that's a different story altogether. I'm a human, not a pack leader. I think my dogs are smart enough to understand that.

Now, I do try to communicate in a way that is clear to the dog - black & white, and consequences are immediate, but all that alpha talk is a bit old fashioned IMO.

X11 - watch Dogs Decoded, and The Science of Dogs. Especially Dogs Decoded shows the differences between domesticated dogs and wolves and they are both available on Netflix.


To the person that doesn't believe in evolution - what is there to believe in? It's science. Science is either true or false, there is no believing. I find it funny that in 2012 something like 40% of the US population does not believe in evolution - a theory that has been proven with the advent of genetics.

Who said they believe in genetics? lol