pack theory oroginal papers? - Page 2

codmaster · 01-09-2013, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by x11

my dogs would like to kill chickens - prove they are wolves??

NAA! - just hungry dogs!

codmaster · 01-09-2013, 11:53 PM

Read Dr. Dunbar and one should be able to see the great results of dogs that he has trained to tiltles and/or service jobs; as well as the many dogs that he has saved from the needle due to their dangerous aggression issues.

I personally do not know where to see any of this documentaion, but I am positive that some of his fans can certainly point to sources that will document what the Dr. has acomplished professionaly with dogs and their training.

Chicagocanine · 01-10-2013, 03:06 AM

You don't believe dogs came from wolves- then where did they come from? Aliens?

Carriesue · 01-10-2013, 03:31 AM

Wasn't there a study done that linked all dogs genetically to the grey wolf or timber wolf, can't remember which but it was in that science of dogs documentary.

Not saying dogs should be treated like wolves obviously they are far removed and have been domesticated for a long time, just putting that out there.

ayoitzrimz · 01-10-2013, 06:30 AM

Dogs are 99.8% genetically equivalent to wolves. They can freely inter-breed. For the record, humans and chimps (our closest relatives) cannot inter-breed. If they didn't come from wolves, where exactly did they come from? And for the record humans did not evolve from chimps. We had a common ancestor millions of years ago but did not directly "evolve" from chimps.

Now, pack theory, alpha leader, and all that junk - that's a different story altogether. I'm a human, not a pack leader. I think my dogs are smart enough to understand that.

Now, I do try to communicate in a way that is clear to the dog - black & white, and consequences are immediate, but all that alpha talk is a bit old fashioned IMO.

X11 - watch Dogs Decoded, and The Science of Dogs. Especially Dogs Decoded shows the differences between domesticated dogs and wolves and they are both available on Netflix.

To the person that doesn't believe in evolution - what is there to believe in? It's science. Science is either true or false, there is no believing. I find it funny that in 2012 something like 40% of the US population does not believe in evolution - a theory that has been proven with the advent of genetics.

onyx'girl · 01-10-2013, 09:37 AM

This dog hardly resembles a wolf....wonder what he evolved from?

GsdLoverr729 · 01-10-2013, 10:07 AM

Ayo- Honestly, I see quite a few holes in the theory of evolution. And it's just that, a theory. It is not set in stone. It is what most believe is the most likely or most factual idea.
I really just can't believe that there was just a random big bang out of literally nothing, life started on a chance, and everything evolved.

If you support that theory, good for you. I'm glad it makes sense. But personally, I see it as nothing more than a belief or way of thinking of things. Hard to explain.

codmaster · 01-10-2013, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicagocanine

You don't believe dogs came from wolves- then where did they come from? Aliens?

From chimps - same as us!

sit,stay · 01-10-2013, 11:03 AM

Molecular genetic data clearly support the origin of dogs from wolves;
dogs have protein alleles in common with wolves,(11,12) share
highly polymorphic microsatellites,(13) and have mitochondrial
DNA sequences similar or identical to those found in gray
wolves.(14,15) Recently, a comprehensive survey of several
hundred gray wolves and dogs found that the two species had
only slightly divergent mitochondrial DNA control region
sequences.(16) For example, the average divergence between
dogs and wolves was about 1.5% in comparison to
7.5% between dogs and coyotes, their next closest relation.

Source:http://parkinson.cos.ucf.edu/Courses...oassay_dog.pdf

It is interesting reading. Science is a wonderful thing.
Sheilah

GsdLoverr729 · 01-10-2013, 11:16 AM

I guess my religious beliefs make me stupid, since they don't support these theories.

I'm not convinced by the science used to determine this lineage, simply because every living creature on earth has similarities in the dna. And other pieces of evidence just don't fit for me. You can think me a fool if you wish. But I will believe what i believe regardless.
Now I bow out of this thread, before I make myself look any dumber.

01-10-2013, 03:06 AM	#13 (permalink)
Chicagocanine Crowned Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,108	You don't believe dogs came from wolves- then where did they come from? Aliens? __________________ Chicago Canine Bianca HIC CGC TT (GSD) 4/24/04-10/23/12

01-10-2013, 03:31 AM	#14 (permalink)
Carriesue Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Carlsbad, California Posts: 1,241	Wasn't there a study done that linked all dogs genetically to the grey wolf or timber wolf, can't remember which but it was in that science of dogs documentary. Not saying dogs should be treated like wolves obviously they are far removed and have been domesticated for a long time, just putting that out there. __________________ ~Ollie vom Grunenfeld HIC(8/29/2012)WGSL/WGWL/DDR cross - herding dog in training! Last edited by Carriesue; 01-10-2013 at 03:37 AM.

01-10-2013, 06:30 AM	#15 (permalink)
ayoitzrimz Master Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: New York, NY Posts: 779	Dogs are 99.8% genetically equivalent to wolves. They can freely inter-breed. For the record, humans and chimps (our closest relatives) cannot inter-breed. If they didn't come from wolves, where exactly did they come from? And for the record humans did not evolve from chimps. We had a common ancestor millions of years ago but did not directly "evolve" from chimps. Now, pack theory, alpha leader, and all that junk - that's a different story altogether. I'm a human, not a pack leader. I think my dogs are smart enough to understand that. Now, I do try to communicate in a way that is clear to the dog - black & white, and consequences are immediate, but all that alpha talk is a bit old fashioned IMO. X11 - watch Dogs Decoded, and The Science of Dogs. Especially Dogs Decoded shows the differences between domesticated dogs and wolves and they are both available on Netflix. To the person that doesn't believe in evolution - what is there to believe in? It's science. Science is either true or false, there is no believing. I find it funny that in 2012 something like 40% of the US population does not believe in evolution - a theory that has been proven with the advent of genetics. Last edited by ayoitzrimz; 01-10-2013 at 06:32 AM.

01-10-2013, 09:37 AM	#16 (permalink)
onyx'girl Crowned Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: SW, MI Posts: 21,196	This dog hardly resembles a wolf....wonder what he evolved from? __________________ Jane~ Kept by Onyx, Kacie and Gideon v Wildhaus aka Karlo

01-10-2013, 10:07 AM	#17 (permalink)
GsdLoverr729 Knighted Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: North Ga, USA Posts: 3,179	Ayo- Honestly, I see quite a few holes in the theory of evolution. And it's just that, a theory. It is not set in stone. It is what most believe is the most likely or most factual idea. I really just can't believe that there was just a random big bang out of literally nothing, life started on a chance, and everything evolved. If you support that theory, good for you. I'm glad it makes sense. But personally, I see it as nothing more than a belief or way of thinking of things. Hard to explain. __________________ Kymmey http://KaohzandKumatz.yolasite.com Mom To~ Dakoda (b/t GSD), Simi (b/w DSH), Nashoba (sable GSD)

01-09-2013, 11:53 PM	#12 (permalink)
codmaster Banned Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: California, US Posts: 5,928	Read Dr. Dunbar and one should be able to see the great results of dogs that he has trained to tiltles and/or service jobs; as well as the many dogs that he has saved from the needle due to their dangerous aggression issues. I personally do not know where to see any of this documentaion, but I am positive that some of his fans can certainly point to sources that will document what the Dr. has acomplished professionaly with dogs and their training.

01-10-2013, 11:03 AM	#19 (permalink)
sit,stay Knighted Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,657	Molecular genetic data clearly support the origin of dogs from wolves; dogs have protein alleles in common with wolves,(11,12) share highly polymorphic microsatellites,(13) and have mitochondrial DNA sequences similar or identical to those found in gray wolves.(14,15) Recently, a comprehensive survey of several hundred gray wolves and dogs found that the two species had only slightly divergent mitochondrial DNA control region sequences.(16) For example, the average divergence between dogs and wolves was about 1.5% in comparison to 7.5% between dogs and coyotes, their next closest relation. Source:http://parkinson.cos.ucf.edu/Courses...oassay_dog.pdf It is interesting reading. Science is a wonderful thing. Sheilah

01-10-2013, 11:16 AM	#20 (permalink)
GsdLoverr729 Knighted Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: North Ga, USA Posts: 3,179	I guess my religious beliefs make me stupid, since they don't support these theories. I'm not convinced by the science used to determine this lineage, simply because every living creature on earth has similarities in the dna. And other pieces of evidence just don't fit for me. You can think me a fool if you wish. But I will believe what i believe regardless. Now I bow out of this thread, before I make myself look any dumber. __________________ Kymmey http://KaohzandKumatz.yolasite.com Mom To~ Dakoda (b/t GSD), Simi (b/w DSH), Nashoba (sable GSD) Last edited by GsdLoverr729; 01-10-2013 at 11:18 AM.

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