Training Cesar's way..... For 6K

[selzer]

Codmaster, please read my post again. I have never even suggested what you are saying.

[Chicagocanine]

Originally Posted by Anthony8858

It is NOT geared towards trainers (as others have mentioned). I think most knowledgeable trainers wouldn't need his psychology center to learn how to handle a dog.

My REAL concern is how many people will walk out of there, shh'in, and kickin' their dogs, thinking their 6K made them dog experts in a week.

.

Well, if the amount of people who do that after just watching his show (which even has a disclaimer) is any indication....I'd say most likely quite a few.

[codmaster]

Originally Posted by selzer

Codmaster, please read my post again. I have never even suggested what you are saying.

I did exactly that and here is a piece of your post:

"I have seen more dogs harmed by Cesar's methods, than dogs helped."

Well, what else would a reader of your quote from your earlier post?

So are you admitting that you have not really seen ANY dogs that were ruined by Mr. Milan?

How many dogs were you referring to in your above statement, anyway?
1, 3, 5, 10, more than 10?

And I would be very interested in exactly what you meant by "ruined" in your statement?

Physically harmed or mentally harmed, or maybe even both?


Your statement seemed to be a very definitive one about the results that you had seen from Mr. Milan so I was very curious as to what you were basing it on.

(Other than a very obvious and often professed dislike, evidently, of Mr. Milan and his methods!)

[Syaoransbear]

Originally Posted by Anthony8858

Not sure if I should laugh at this ^^^

I have NEVER bashed CM, and don't start flame wars. I've watched his show, and picked up various tidbits myself.

I was merely curious what everyone's thoughts would be about CM charging 6K for a "few hours" of group training.

It is NOT geared towards trainers (as others have mentioned). I think most knowledgeable trainers wouldn't need his psychology center to learn how to handle a dog.

My REAL concern is how many people will walk out of there, shh'in, and kickin' their dogs, thinking their 6K made them dog experts in a week.

I'm sorry, I don't dislike CM. I think he's awesome. ..sometimes.

I think the people who come out of there are going to be less likely to be the ones 'pshttt'ing their dogs than the people who watch one episode from the first season and think they have it all figured out. The 'pssht' thing he does isn't the bulk of his methods, it's just one that seems to be popular because it's a unique noise and if you make it then EVERYONE knows you are using a name brand training technique . If you exercise your dog or don't allow it to get away with bad behavior, that's just considered common sense. And the bulk of Cesar's methods are just common sense, which just doesn't market as well as "psssshttt!" .

[Olivers mama]

Originally Posted by Syaoransbear

I think the people who come out of there are going to be less likely to be the ones 'pshttt'ing their dogs than the people who watch one episode from the first season and think they have it all figured out. The 'pssht' thing he does isn't the bulk of his methods, it's just one that seems to be popular because it's a unique noise and if you make it then EVERYONE knows you are using a name brand training technique . If you exercise your dog or don't allow it to get away with bad behavior, that's just considered common sense. And the bulk of Cesar's methods are just common sense, which just doesn't market as well as "psssshttt!" .

I agree with you --- & I love your wording. Thank You!

[msvette2u]

Originally Posted by codmaster

Maybe it would help you understand if you were?

Understand...what??
I am not a professional trainer. But I train dogs daily. I just am not going to sit around saying I'm a trainer because, well, there's nothing magic in determining what a dog needs and working with it that way as opposed to using a one size fits all method that got this dingbat bitten not long ago

Originally Posted by codmaster

"Idiot" - kind of harsh??????????????????

I'd say "if the shoe fits", but it's not you I'm talking about, is it?
So, if the shoe doesn't fit, don't shove it on the dude

[selzer]

Originally Posted by codmaster

I did exactly that and here is a piece of your post:

"I have seen more dogs harmed by Cesar's methods, than dogs helped."

Well, what else would a reader of your quote from your earlier post?

So are you admitting that you have not really seen ANY dogs that were ruined by Mr. Milan?

How many dogs were you referring to in your above statement, anyway?
1, 3, 5, 10, more than 10?

And I would be very interested in exactly what you meant by "ruined" in your statement?

Physically harmed or mentally harmed, or maybe even both?


Your statement seemed to be a very definitive one about the results that you had seen from Mr. Milan so I was very curious as to what you were basing it on.

(Other than a very obvious and often professed dislike, evidently, of Mr. Milan and his methods!)

Codmaster, I am sick and flipping tired of you putting words in people's mouthes, putting words in MY mouth. I want for you to quote the post on this thread where I said "ruined" because that is a term I really do not like to use about ANY dog or person.

I did use the word "harmed." I said "harmed by Cesar's methods" which is a world of difference between that and "harmed by Cesar." Anyone can practice what they see Cesar doing, and I have seen it over and over and over again, where these dogs are harmed by people doing the things that Cesar does.

I have rehabilitated dogs that have been harmed by Cesar's methods. And I have tried to talk numerous people out of doing what they have seen Cesar doing on TV. Who are they going to listen to? The guy with a TV show for sure. But for those of us who are out there working with dogs, who are active in training with other people and other dogs, Cesar's name is not the same for us, as it is for those who stay at home and psssst at their dogs and get a response. The vast majority of real live dog trainers that I work with or have worked with do not have anything great to say about him.

[Olivers mama]

Originally Posted by selzer

The vast majority of real live dog trainers that I work with or have worked with do not have anything great to say about him.

Selzer - I generally agree with most of what you say / offer. But this one comment? No, I cannot. Of COURSE other "trainers" are going to bash the man. I'm sure they all say they can "fix" a dog that CM has "ruined". In fact, we went to 2 different trainers who claimes they were The Best. One even said he could FIX any dog better than CM. We don't get the Natl Geo channel, so I had no idea to whom he was referring. But then, of course, he went on to further damage our Rescue with his training methods. And, as if we weren't stupid enough, we fired that idiot & hired yet another one. Had we not snuck up on this woman, we would never have known what she was doing to our dog. Suffice it to say SHE is lucky my hubby was also there - to hold me back. Because I would've kicked that woman's b-hind all the way into the next state. And we "only" spent 4K between these 2 rescue-group-endorsed individuals. I'd GLADLY spend 6K (if I had it) on someone with proven results - be it CM or VS. (ME makes me gag - he's a wannabe Famous Dog Trainer - IMO)

But where do people go for decent training? If you go on referrals, you get Jow Blow who hangs out a shingle, charges big bucks, and gives you a dog with more problems than she had when she went there in the first place.

You didn't like my comment about no one wanting to help from this forum - which is why these famous people get so many followers. My biggest problem with this dog was the way she liked to bite women. No one here offered any help - everyone backs off when you bring up a biting problem. If we could get beyond that - I was fully prepared to go back to the only training type I knew. But I HAD to stop the biting. When no one here or another forum wouldn't help, I sent notes to both CM & VS websites. VS couldn't be bothered. But a rep from CM did. Turns out, his anti-biting suggestion was the same as a K9 friend of ours. A few months of this man working with this dog has broken the habit. I haven't been bitten in months. Sometimes she's still too mouthy (IMO) when giving her a treat, but there's been a huge turn-around. I'm sorry, but a GSD's teeth sinking into my flesh was not fun.

Maybe people turn to trainers like CM because he's the only one that will help. My own opinion is that I prefer training somewhere in the middle of CM & VS. Not all training methods work for all dogs. And working with blank slates - puppies - is a whole different scenario than working with an older Rescue. If people like me search everywhere for answers & get none - you can't blame us for looking elsewhere.

[onyx'girl]

Gosh, I'd go with Leslie McDevitt, Karen Pryor or Brenda Aloff for help instead of a high profile television star.
But luckily we have so many good trainer/behaviorists right in my state, I don't need to go to LA for help.

[gsdraven]

Originally Posted by Olivers mama

You didn't like my comment about no one wanting to help from this forum - which is why these famous people get so many followers. My biggest problem with this dog was the way she liked to bite women. No one here offered any help - everyone backs off when you bring up a biting problem.

What exactly would you like people on this forum to do? Those on this forum with the experience and skills to handle a dog that bites know better than to dish out advice over the internet on a dog they have never met and can't see. I'm sure there are plenty of people that if you were in their area would have helped you. I know I've wanted to post on enough of your posts saying how difficult rescues are and complaining that no one on this forum has helped you but the truth is, I live across the country so what good would that do either of us?

This is an internet forum, not the bible on dog training. MANY respected trainers who have been at it MUCH longer than CM agree that he is dangerous and cannot properly read canine behavior. It is not jealousy. These people are just as famous, get just as much money for their seminars and help just as many dogs.