is there a separate retreive drive?? - Page 2 - German Shepherd Dog Forums

Increase font size: 0, 10, 25, 50%

GermanShepherds.com is the premier German Shepherd Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-04-2012, 09:21 PM   #11 (permalink)
x11
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,291
Default

that training can compensate for missing instinct/unprounced traits, at least to some degree in some traits?

most puppies won't do weave poles either but can if trained properly, is that the same thing as what you are saying.
x11 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-04-2012, 09:39 PM   #12 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 18,697
Default

He makes a good point. Just because it's not present at 6-8 weeks does not mean it's missing. That's where it takes a breeder that knows the lines and how they mature. Pan wanted nothing to do with toys until he was about 6 months old. He was very mellow. Definitely a confident, pushy dog but not hyper active and not really interested in doing lots of fetching or playing obedience for toys. At around six months that lightbulb turned on, almost over night. With only a few months of training he became the fastest U-Fli German Shepherd in North America, so I would certainly not call his drive missing or unpronounced, lol. He's just a slow maturing dog, in almost every way. He is almost 2.5 years and still developing in certain areas, physically and mentally.
__________________
Coke (All-American 7/7/06)
Nikon (GSD 9/7/08)
Indy (All-American 5/10/12)
Legend (GSD 10/22/13)
Rainbow Bridge Kenya (GSD)

Liesje is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-04-2012, 10:29 PM   #13 (permalink)
x11
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,291
Default

i would not expect to see civil drive, defence or a whole bunch of things in a 5 week old pup either but would not conclude they were missing??

i was actually just asking if retreiving could be considered as a separate drive as chasing the ball is clearly prey - why do some puppies run it back to the human?
x11 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-04-2012, 10:34 PM   #14 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
onyx'girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SW, MI
Posts: 24,469
Default

Quote:
why do some puppies run it back to the human?
they have pack drive
__________________
Jane~
Kept by Onyx, Kacie and Karlo
onyx'girl is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-04-2012, 10:37 PM   #15 (permalink)
x11
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,291
Default

interesting - could you expand on that? why do they (baby puppy) "think" that is benefical behaviour to the pack?
x11 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-04-2012, 10:41 PM   #16 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
onyx'girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SW, MI
Posts: 24,469
Default

A pup with pack drive would rather be with their pack than independent. So bringing back a ball would show that need. When choosing a pup, do you want the one that interacts with its littermates and humans or one that is off by itself exploring. I know exploring means confidence but it can also mean a pup that may not be as biddable or have pack drive.
This link explains it in more detail:
http://www.vanerp.net/ilse/GSDINFO/E...rament.htm#2.4. Pack Drive
__________________
Jane~
Kept by Onyx, Kacie and Karlo

Last edited by onyx'girl; 12-04-2012 at 10:44 PM.
onyx'girl is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-04-2012, 11:24 PM   #17 (permalink)
x11
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,291
Default

good reference, i will bookmark that thanks.

having monitored a few litters of others and seen people score them for this and that on a specific time day i can tell you for a fact that on a different time /day you could apply the same tests and score every pup differently. apart from obvious things i am not sure puppy tests mean a whole lot in the long term...jmo.

but still as you say the pup bringing the ball back shows pack drive....but if it just ran back without retrieving it would be the same pack drive would it not?

what role is carrying the ball back to the pack in biological survival terms?
x11 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-04-2012, 11:28 PM   #18 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
onyx'girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SW, MI
Posts: 24,469
Default

ball=prey(food) carrying it back *prey* to share with the pack? Heck IDK! A dog that takes it off to enjoy on its own may get challenged I would think. My dogs always want what isn't theirs, when they 'share' it isn't as high value.
Quote:
having monitored a few litters of others and seen people score them for this and that on a specific time day i can tell you for a fact that on a different time /day you could apply the same tests and score every pup differently. apart from obvious things i am not sure puppy tests mean a whole lot in the long term...jmo.
Isn't that is why breeders don't rely on just one window of time when testing, they look at the overall view of the puppy before making determinations on the evaluations.
__________________
Jane~
Kept by Onyx, Kacie and Karlo
onyx'girl is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-05-2012, 04:49 AM   #19 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: near Washington DC
Posts: 44
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by x11 View Post
can you believe that competition retreivers (gun dogs) as i understand are all force retreived??

not sure if true or not.
Some are. The field lines very often have a natural retrieve.
Max retrieved and brought me a stuffy when I met the litter, at seven weeks. His first day at home he retrieved anything I threw. By the second week at home I'd trained him, with a clicker, to place the ball in my hand.
I've heard of the pinch the ear method to get retrievers to pick up an object. I trained Max to pick up a tiny dumbell as a young pup using a clicker.


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App
Lilliam is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-05-2012, 04:53 AM   #20 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: near Washington DC
Posts: 44
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by onyx'girl View Post
A pup with pack drive would rather be with their pack than independent. So bringing back a ball would show that need. When choosing a pup, do you want the one that interacts with its littermates and humans or one that is off by itself exploring. I know exploring means confidence but it can also mean a pup that may not be as biddable or have pack drive.
This link explains it in more detail:
http://www.vanerp.net/ilse/GSDINFO/E...rament.htm#2.4. Pack Drive
WOW I've got a lot to learn about GSDs before I get my puppy!!!! I don't think I'd ever heard if "pack drive." Thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App
Lilliam is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:35 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
PetGuide.com
Basset.net DobermanTalk.com GoldenRetrieverForum.com OurBeagleWorld.com
BoxerForums.com DogForums.com GoPitbull.com PoodleForum.com
BulldogBreeds.com FishForums.com HavaneseForum.com SpoiledMaltese.com
CatForum.com GermanShepherds.com Labradoodle-dogs.net YorkieForum.com
Chihuahua-People.com RetrieverBreeds.com