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Old 11-14-2012, 07:08 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I'm really sorry - and I certainly don't want to sound rude, but the dog doesn't belong to you. The dog belongs to your step dad. It's nice that you feel close to the dog, but it was never yours to begin with.

My daughter showed Aussies and Arabian horses. She took riding lessons, dog training classes, seminars etc. She did have a male Aussie that was her shadow - he even slept with her in her bed. But those animals belonged to ME. She had no rights to them when she left for school, nor did I have any obligations to provide her visiting rights or provide her partial ownership. I purchased them, paid for vet care etc. They belonged to me.

Just for the record - I did give her the male Aussie mentioned above. Only because I felt he would help keep her safe while away from home. NOT because I felt I OWED her the dog, or was obligated to give her the dog. She NEVER asked for him, but was delighted when I told her to take him with her.

I would have come UNGLUED if my own daughter even mentioned taking me to court to sue me for ownership of any of MY animals.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:13 PM   #12 (permalink)
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My parents have Cujo. I gave him to them. I love that they have Cujo. I am as bonded to him as I am to my own dogs, and I get to see him all the time. I can also see that he has a great life. When I notice it needs doing, I cut his toenails.

My nieces look forward to seeing him when they come over. They call him their dog. I like that.

I don't bring my dogs over to my parent's house, because they have Cujo, and there is no reason to have a bunch of dogs running amok there. But I still have a dog when I am there, because there is Cujo.

They have the say when it comes to everything; training, vetting, feeding, meds, and ultimately when to say goodbye. Because i know that they love him, my mother said you couldn't get a more perfect dog, just today, I am ok with them having those decisions. He is their dog. But that doesn't mean I am not one of his special people. I always will be.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:16 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RowdyDogs View Post
I totally sympathize in a way...but from a realistic standpoint, nothing you mention is even approaching illegal, unless she actually bit someone. I had an unfenced rural home for years that I kept bitey territorial dogs on and never had a problem, even with random people showing up (not condoning that). Coyotes are a fear, but not one that give you legal standing in anywhere I've lived. Mats aren't cool, but they have to be pretty extreme before they'll meet neglect standards.

Your family's dog is your family's dog, and while the care doesn't sound ideal by any means, it also sounds far from abusive or dangerously neglectful. I am sorry for you really, because I've been in your shoes of loving an animal I didn't own but cared for, and didn't like how the owners cared for it...but part of growing up is realizing you can't save them all. It nearly killed me when I was 19 but I learned to walk away when there was nothing more I could do; you may have to as well. There are more animals out there in need than you (or anyone) can possibly save, so focus on doing what you can with a realistic outcome rather than a foolish complaint against family who probably aren't even violating any laws (though again, I don't mean that dismissively, because they aren't taking good care of their dog--just stating what I understand to be facts).

edit to add: Have you tried talking about your concerns with your stepfather? I'm guessing you have, but thought I'd mention it as you never know...
Her care is in no way neglectful, and I did not mean to make it appear as if it was. It's just not up to my standards. And yes I have, before I moved. He told me not to worry and that I would still get to see her. To be honest, I think my whole family thinks I'm kind of a nut, because I'm so over-bearing and concerned over my animals. I don't mean to be, it's just the way I am.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:32 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lilie View Post
I'm really sorry - and I certainly don't want to sound rude, but the dog doesn't belong to you. The dog belongs to your step dad. It's nice that you feel close to the dog, but it was never yours to begin with.

My daughter showed Aussies and Arabian horses. She took riding lessons, dog training classes, seminars etc. She did have a male Aussie that was her shadow - he even slept with her in her bed. But those animals belonged to ME. She had no rights to them when she left for school, nor did I have any obligations to provide her visiting rights or provide her partial ownership. I purchased them, paid for vet care etc. They belonged to me.

Just for the record - I did give her the male Aussie mentioned above. Only because I felt he would help keep her safe while away from home. NOT because I felt I OWED her the dog, or was obligated to give her the dog. She NEVER asked for him, but was delighted when I told her to take him with her.

I would have come UNGLUED if my own daughter even mentioned taking me to court to sue me for ownership of any of MY animals.
I don't think that I should have Ellie because my family owes her to me, but because I know how to properly care for her. For almost 3 years I was her only care-taker. I know that dog inside and out.
And when it comes to money there was a long period where I paid for ALL the animals' food and vet care, as I worked at a vet assistant. Not that this entitles me to Ellie, but it shows that I took a lot of responsibility for her and the rest of the animals.
And yes, my family was a little peeved when I mentioned taking them to court, not to sue but to fight for ownership of her if I felt she wasn't being properly cared for. But they understood that a lot of my time, money, and emotions went into that dog, and being my family, know I tend to over-worry. So, they understood why I said that.
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Last edited by Kwolf94; 11-14-2012 at 07:35 PM.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:36 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Her care is in no way neglectful, and I did not mean to make it appear as if it was. It's just not up to my standards. And yes I have, before I moved. He told me not to worry and that I would still get to see her. To be honest, I think my whole family thinks I'm kind of a nut, because I'm so over-bearing and concerned over my animals. I don't mean to be, it's just the way I am.
I didn't think you implied that, I just wanted to emphasize the legality because of your mention of taking them to court. You probably don't have a case, is what I was trying to say in a roundabout way. Being in GA, based on a case I was an expert witness in there, your circumstances are even worse. Their standards for legal care and ownership seemed extremely low, though of course don't take this as legal advice as I'm anything but a lawyer. Or advisor really.

I totally understand the nut stuff, I'm the same in my family. I didn't mean to sound harsh, just trying to say that I'm willing to bet money you don't have any legal standing, frustrating as that is.

edit: depending on the time frame, in my state generally if you've paid all feed/vet bills for 2+ weeks without a prior agreement, you own the animal. You may want to look into legal definitions of ownership in your state, as if you don't care about papers you may be able to lay claim to the dog, or do so after a future long-term visit. Regardless you will almost certainly be paying court fees though...

Last edited by RowdyDogs; 11-14-2012 at 07:39 PM.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:43 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Sorry for this but the whole "I threatened to sue them" thing got to me...

You can't sue people over neglecting their dog. You can call animal control, animal control can take it, and animal control will most likely keep it. The AKC papers are in your step-dad's name, so no lawyer in their right mind would take a case that the dog belongs to you because you take care of it sometimes and trained it.

Freaking out because someone doesn't take care of the dog to your "standards" is rediculous. That's like the rest of us making judgments on the way people treat their pets and then wanting to take the pets away from them. I can name off a list of things that I would never do with my dog (leave him outside unattended being the first one), but there are plenty of people that do that and should they get their animal taken away because I don't believe they should do that? Even if the dog gets fed and taken care of properly at other times?

Sorry...this is just going to turn into one of those rants where I don't see anyone on your side. No matter how much you care for this dog, as long as its loved and taken care of you shouldn't care what else happens - at least to the extreme of going to court over it and possibly even posting on this forum about it. How would you feel if I were to say to you that you don't take care of YOUR dog to MY standard and I think you should give it to me because YOU'RE just not doing a good job.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:44 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RowdyDogs View Post
I didn't think you implied that, I just wanted to emphasize the legality because of your mention of taking them to court. You probably don't have a case, is what I was trying to say in a roundabout way. Being in GA, based on a case I was an expert witness in there, your circumstances are even worse. Their standards for legal care and ownership seemed extremely low, though of course don't take this as legal advice as I'm anything but a lawyer. Or advisor really.

I totally understand the nut stuff, I'm the same in my family. I didn't mean to sound harsh, just trying to say that I'm willing to bet money you don't have any legal standing, frustrating as that is.
You're not being harsh, you're being practical, and I really appreciate your feedback on this. I agree I have no legal standing on the matter, but my family doesn't know that! If anything, my "threat" will ensure her care.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:54 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Sorry for this but the whole "I threatened to sue them" thing got to me...

You can't sue people over neglecting their dog. You can call animal control, animal control can take it, and animal control will most likely keep it. The AKC papers are in your step-dad's name, so no lawyer in their right mind would take a case that the dog belongs to you because you take care of it sometimes and trained it.

Freaking out because someone doesn't take care of the dog to your "standards" is rediculous. That's like the rest of us making judgments on the way people treat their pets and then wanting to take the pets away from them. I can name off a list of things that I would never do with my dog (leave him outside unattended being the first one), but there are plenty of people that do that and should they get their animal taken away because I don't believe they should do that? Even if the dog gets fed and taken care of properly at other times?

Sorry...this is just going to turn into one of those rants where I don't see anyone on your side. No matter how much you care for this dog, as long as its loved and taken care of you shouldn't care what else happens - at least to the extreme of going to court over it and possibly even posting on this forum about it. How would you feel if I were to say to you that you don't take care of YOUR dog to MY standard and I think you should give it to me because YOU'RE just not doing a good job.
Once again, my "threat" was not to sue, but to gain ownership of Ellie.
This isn't just some dog that I feel is not being properly cared for. This is a dog I raised and trained. A dog whose personality I know almost as well as my own. And the reason I brought it to this forum is because I was looking for rational feedback, which RowdyDogs and Selzer (to name a few) gave without making me feel like I am in the wrong for being concerned about a dog I love.
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:09 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Ok. Now that I've taken a moment to put my own emotions in check (considering you are my BEST friend and someone did post something that definitely triggered my protective instincts...), I feel like Ellie would do best with you. But we both know you have school, and there's nothing you can do to get her until/unless something insane does happen.
She's getting what she needs (thanks to Riley mostly lol), and she still gets to see you. (:
Knowing first-hand how much you've put into her I can relate pretty well I think you've put more money into her than I have Koda, as well as just as much time. But in the end she's Jeff's dog and she's getting what she needs. And I'm sure she's happily chasing squirrels right about now.

I loves you, Kumatz! If she's meant to come live with you (which would make me and Koda both veryyyy happy), she will in time(:
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:21 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Ok. Now that I've taken a moment to put my own emotions in check (considering you are my BEST friend and someone did post something that definitely triggered my protective instincts...), I feel like Ellie would do best with you. But we both know you have school, and there's nothing you can do to get her until/unless something insane does happen.
She's getting what she needs (thanks to Riley mostly lol), and she still gets to see you. (:
Knowing first-hand how much you've put into her I can relate pretty well I think you've put more money into her than I have Koda, as well as just as much time. But in the end she's Jeff's dog and she's getting what she needs. And I'm sure she's happily chasing squirrels right about now.

I loves you, Kumatz! If she's meant to come live with you (which would make me and Koda both veryyyy happy), she will in time(:
I love you too!! And I agree.

I figured there would be some negative inputs (which I understand completely, everyone has their own opinions) but I am only really taking the constructive ones to heart.
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