Dutch Shepherd???

[Liesje]

Breed traits don't matter? I suppose that's why there are so many Shih Tzus in Schutzhund trials and so many Newfoundlands running terrier races...

[huntergreen]

no i don't write for breeders, but i do believe what i posted. when i commit to aprox 12 years to a pet, i try to increase my odds of getting what i expect. having said this, there are different flavors in many breeds. there can be an exception to standards, but they are not norm. i didn't find your post argumentative at all. its good to share and hear other sides of a discussion.

[x11]

my point is that so many newbs get misled by thinking all i do to get a dog to do X is look at the breed standard and see what it says about X and hey presto just get on the first web-site that comes up in google and order a dog that will do X because it is an X dog.

the mathematical probabiltiy of that happening is 1/(real big number)


greeders of course like to maintain the myth and rely on newbs to believe in fairy tales. fact the average gsd will not protect you or yours any more than any other random breed or mutt just like the average BC won't herd sheep much more than...etc

there is a reason why high acheiving breeders put so much time, thought and effort into their programs and they deserve the respect for it. they don't just go oh here are two random gsd's so i will breed them over and over and produce...police dogs - that is just stupid.

so my point to the OP was he should be more concerned with knowing exactly what he wants in a dog and forget this breed stereotyping nonsense and see if that particular dog of interest matches up with his wants and needs and to do this he should get an experienced non-breed specific trainer to assist, THEN if likes the dog and can provide for its needs then it might be a good deal.

[dazedtrucker]

Originally Posted by Nickyb

I.




As a side note, I figured I'd add a picture of my trainer's DS, he does this every time Zoey comes in :roflmao:

That's the cutest freakin' thing I've seen in a while

[Liesje]

Originally Posted by x11

my point is that so many newbs get misled by thinking all i do to get a dog to do X is look at the breed standard and see what it says about X and hey presto just get on the first web-site that comes up in google and order a dog that will do X because it is an X dog.

the mathematical probabiltiy of that happening is 1/(real big number)

greeders of course like to maintain the myth and rely on newbs to believe in fairy tales. fact the average gsd will not protect you or yours any more than any other random breed or mutt just like the average BC won't herd sheep much more than...etc

there is a reason why high acheiving breeders put so much time, thought and effort into their programs and they deserve the respect for it. they don't just go oh here are two random gsd's so i will breed them over and over and produce...police dogs - that is just stupid.

so my point to the OP was he should be more concerned with knowing exactly what he wants in a dog and forget this breed stereotyping nonsense and see if that particular dog of interest matches up with his wants and needs and to do this he should get an experienced non-breed specific trainer to assist, THEN if likes the dog and can provide for its needs then it might be a good deal.

Help me out here because it sounds like you are contradicting yourself? If breed traits don't matter and getting a dog is nothing more than a crapshoot, then why would it matter that the OP knows what s/he wants in a dog? How does one FIND that if there is no way to predict how a dog will act? If being a GSD does not make a GSD any more likely to act a certain way then why *wouldn't* putting random dogs together meet your needs?

Check your math...all of my dogs so far have acted the way I predicted before I even had the puppies in my hands, just based on knowing the pedigree and observing dogs in the pedigree. Nothing about the dogs I've chosen and how I've raised, trained, titled them has been a crapshoot. There's a good reason I've always been very satisfied with my dogs, their health, and their temperaments. I do not spend years researching and waiting for a crapshoot.

[msvette2u]

You can't make a herder out of a Husky.

[x11]

you are overstating things like others are - it totally matters what the OP wants in a dog - he has to see (with guidance of an experienced person) if that dog is it. could be any freakin breed or non-breed. it's what that dog is and what he wants in a dog that matters - you don't determine that by looking at a breed standard.

not gonna take yr whole thread or anyone else's apart but "...How does one FIND that if there is no way to predict how a dog will act?...."

by looking at the dog, the parents, the puppy, what that breeder has produced consistently or not......sheesh give up yr breed propaganda it does not help the newbs.

i must be (TERRIBLE)at explaining the obvious - what are a big chunk of threads about on dog forums - what do you think i will get when i cross this with this. if it was a whole breed thing those massive amount of threads would be pointless as you would just say oh its a X breed then it will do X cos thats what the standard says for that breed.

you can't be that thick, what is yr point?

Originally Posted by Liesje

Help me out here because it sounds like you are contradicting yourself? If breed traits don't matter and getting a dog is nothing more than a crapshoot, then why would it matter that the OP knows what s/he wants in a dog? How does one FIND that if there is no way to predict how a dog will act? If being a GSD does not make a GSD any more likely to act a certain way then why *wouldn't* putting random dogs together meet your needs?

Check your math...all of my dogs so far have acted the way I predicted before I even had the puppies in my hands, just based on knowing the pedigree and observing dogs in the pedigree. Nothing about the dogs I've chosen and how I've raised, trained, titled them has been a crapshoot. There's a good reason I've always been very satisfied with my dogs, their health, and their temperaments. I do not spend years researching and waiting for a crapshoot.

[Liesje]

Thick? OK please enlighten me then, how would I "look at the dog" before it has been conceived?

It seems you are talking about breeding just based on a breed standard? That is so vague. If guess if THAT is your point they yeah, it goes without saying. Of course no one can know what a particular dog will be like just based on a breed standard but there are traits a given breed *should* possess and if you want to know whether they do, you don't have to actually wait for the dog to be born and test it yourself to find out.

[x11]

Originally Posted by Liesje

Thick? OK please enlighten me then, how would I "look at the dog" before it has been conceived?

It seems you are talking about breeding just based on a breed standard? That is so vague. If guess if THAT is your point they yeah, it goes without saying. Of course no one can know what a particular dog will be like just based on a breed standard but there are traits a given breed *should* possess and if you want to know whether they do, you don't have to actually wait for the dog to be born and test it yourself to find out.

if i could repost my intial words then this is what i would have said above in bold.

he the OP is looking at a young living individual dog - he needs to look close at THAT dog, i was trying to correct the others who were saying DS this, DS that, mals are this, mals are all that....just not true on the individual dog level.

[Liesje]

Personally I'd look at more than just the dog, but the whole pedigree (and who bred the dog, and why).