Will my new puppy be scared of other dogs now?

[wyoung2153]

Hey guys, Not sure exactly which forum this needed to be posted in because it kind of addresses a couple subjects.. so if it needs to be moved, I got it.

well I had an incident this morning. I just brought my 3 mo old Boerboel home Firday night. The cutest "little" thing. Athena was a little sheltered at the breeders, or more so spoiled. Never left alone, never socialized with any other dog than the Boerboel, and though socialized with women, never with men. So she has a few things to get used to.

Anyways, I have a 2 y/o GSD, Titan. When she first saw him she was PETRIFIED. But once he sniffed her and licked her she LOVED him. She wanted to be everywhere he was. I had to start putting him on the deck when she went outside to pee because she wouldn't concentrate if he was there. Well things went smoothly the last day or so. I have her realizing her crate is her safe space and she doesn't mind too much being in it as long as she can see/hear Myself or Titan. She is a ball of energy when she gets comfortable then she and titan roll around and play on the floor or outside.

Well This morning I got up to take Athena potty and when we all came back inside Titan went to his kennel, like always. Athena just bounded around the room following my every move. Well I walked past Titan and was heading down the hall. I turned around and Athena had decided she was going to sniff Titans crate and I am guessing put a paw in it and he pretty much attacked her. Snapped at her tried to pin her down. She yelpped and high-tailed it to her crate and wouldn't come out. I grabbed Titan out of his kennel, pinned him down yelled "no!" and a few other things.. as I was so mad at him. And smacked him (I know some don't agree with the smacking but that's not what this is about.) I was able to coax her out of her kennel and he came over to check her out or more so me to see if I was still mad at him. she was terrified.. shaking and whining. she didn't appear to be hurt at all followed me around the house again. She was calm laying on me so I called Titan over and made him lay down, he sniffed her, she sniffed him and SLIGHTLY wagged her tail, then she ran back to her kennel and is now passed out.

Now that you know the story. I have some questions. Will this cause her to be Dog Aggressive in the future? Will that completely effect her relationship with him, like will she be scared of him forever? OR am I overreacting and she will wake up and want everything to do with him again? As for Titan, how do I ensure that doesn't happen again? He is a very friendly dog, not even remotely dog aggressive at all. I'm guessing that because it was "his" space.. he just didn't want her in there..

Advice? suggestions? Reassurance?? Something??

[doggiedad]

watch both dogs closely. don't leave them together
unattended. i doubt your dog is scarred for life.

[AgileGSD]

Originally Posted by wyoung2153

well I had an incident this morning. I just brought my 3 mo old Boerboel home Firday night. The cutest "little" thing. Athena was a little sheltered at the breeders, or more so spoiled. Never left alone, never socialized with any other dog than the Boerboel, and though socialized with women, never with men. So she has a few things to get used to.

With a breed like a Boerboel, I'd not take a dog that old who has had such limited experiences. That gives you only a month or so to try to "catch up" on her socialization before the optimal socialization time is over. Of course, it is what it is at this point since you already have the puppy. At this point, you're going to have to go into super socialization mode as it sounds like your puppy already has some confidence and fear issues.

Originally Posted by wyoung2153

Well This morning I got up to take Athena potty and when we all came back inside Titan went to his kennel, like always. Athena just bounded around the room following my every move. Well I walked past Titan and was heading down the hall. I turned around and Athena had decided she was going to sniff Titans crate and I am guessing put a paw in it and he pretty much attacked her. Snapped at her tried to pin her down. She yelpped and high-tailed it to her crate and wouldn't come out. I grabbed Titan out of his kennel, pinned him down yelled "no!" and a few other things.. as I was so mad at him. And smacked him (I know some don't agree with the smacking but that's not what this is about.) I was able to coax her out of her kennel and he came over to check her out or more so me to see if I was still mad at him. she was terrified.. shaking and whining. she didn't appear to be hurt at all followed me around the house again. She was calm laying on me so I called Titan over and made him lay down, he sniffed her, she sniffed him and SLIGHTLY wagged her tail, then she ran back to her kennel and is now passed out.

You say he "pretty much attacked her" but she had no marks on her. If she had no marks on her, it was far from an attack. This is pretty typical behavior of adult dogs towards puppies. Titan was in his crate, puppy tried to invade his space so she was corrected. Reason to keep better watch on the two perhaps but it really isn't fair to correct Titan for this. While some dogs are exceptionally tolerant of puppies, some are much stricter in what they will and won't tolerate. A certain amount of correction from the older dog is going to happen when you bring a new puppy home, unless you keep them separated for the most part.

Originally Posted by wyoung2153

Now that you know the story. I have some questions. Will this cause her to be Dog Aggressive in the future? Will that completely effect her relationship with him, like will she be scared of him forever? OR am I overreacting and she will wake up and want everything to do with him again? As for Titan, how do I ensure that doesn't happen again? He is a very friendly dog, not even remotely dog aggressive at all. I'm guessing that because it was "his" space.. he just didn't want her in there..

Advice? suggestions? Reassurance?? Something??

You are overreacting. You need to act like everything is fine and normal or she will pick up on your worried, paranoid feelings/behavior and it will make her feel weird. That may cause her to have issues, especially if you become anxious about everything wondering if it will badly effect her.

All that said, I think Boerboels are by nature dog aggressive, so there's a good chance she will become dog aggressive anyway. Their standard describes their temperament in this way:

"The Boerboel is a dominant and intelligent dog with strong protective instincts and a willingness to please. When approached is calm, stable and confident, at times displaying a self-assured aloofness. He should recognize a threat or lack thereof. He is loving with children and family. An aggressive or belligerent attitude towards other dogs should not be faulted. However, Boerboel's that are shown in competition should be trained to allow examination."

I can't stress enough that your biggest issue with this puppy is that she's almost through her crucial socialization period and she's had almost no socialization. She's already showing signs of lack of confidence and fear issues and her breed is a more difficult one, being prone to aggression towards strangers and other dogs. Hopefully, you can have her with you more often than not in the next month or so and make a point to take her all over to see people, places, things and other dogs. I would not do the free-for-all group play thing with her that many puppies classes promote as "socialization". IMO it will probably have the opposite effect on her, since she is already afraid of other dogs. Instead, make a point to take her around other leashed dogs so she can gain confidence without interaction. The message should be that other dogs aren't potential friends or enemies, they are just there.

[wyoung2153]

Thanks for the information.. and shortly after I posted that I realized I was probably overreacting.

I do know that she has socialization issues and I am DEFINITELY working on that. My neighbors and their kids have been over frequently since I have had her. and few friends, men included have come to socialize. After a first day or 2 she seemed a bit more confident with them but still came back to me when she wasn't comfortable anymore. She seems to have an issue with people standing up. I am assuming this was because the breeder and her workers were always sitting down on the floor with them. For the most part she is ok with me and my roommate but if I make a swift movement she will walk lower to the ground and get really weary. She also seems to take the "independence" thing to a whole new level. If she is attempting to do something, like come into a new room, come down the stairs, come out of her kennel, etc. she will not accept help willingly. Example, she wants down the 2 stairs to get into the yard from the deck. At first she was scared and wouldn't go near them. If I went near her to pick her up to help her, she would run from me unless I squatted down and called her. then she would come. If I try to direct her into a room, regardless if she was on her way anyways, she all of a sudden doesn't want to go in there that way anymore and will find a different route than the original one planned. She just seems to not want "help" with things. I need to knock this habit out before she reaches her adult weight.. I can handle a 35 lb puppy who resists things like the leash and being picke dup to bring down stairs.. not a 120 lb dog. We will be working on this

Just a very different personality. She has actually come a long way in the few days I have had her. Only barks with Titan barks or there is someone in the yard. She has associated her kennel as her safe place and knows that she can come and go as she pleases until bed time. She's good at redirecting.. if she's chewing on something she's not supposed to or I want her to settle down, I'll give her a chew and she'll sit next to me and chew it. For the most part I see a whole lot of potential, the only things that concern/frustrate me are the fear issues. Thought when my GSD was a puppy he was scared of life. I had to get him out of that quickly, I had him at 8 weeks though, not 12 so I had a bit more time in his prime stage.

As for the dog aggression, do you mean eventually with Titan she will get DA or just in general. I know that they are same gender aggressive, which is why I got a female instead of male. As for in general, I plan on socializing a lot.. and if it comes down to that I can't have her around other dogs regardless of how I socialized her, then I will have to take the necessary precautions for her safety and others.

Thank you for all the information, I really appreciate it!!

[AgileGSD]

Originally Posted by wyoung2153

Thanks for the information.. and shortly after I posted that I realized I was probably overreacting.

It happens! Everyone here wants to do right by their pups

Originally Posted by wyoung2153

I do know that she has socialization issues and I am DEFINITELY working on that. My neighbors and their kids have been over frequently since I have had her. and few friends, men included have come to socialize. After a first day or 2 she seemed a bit more confident with them but still came back to me when she wasn't comfortable anymore. She seems to have an issue with people standing up. I am assuming this was because the breeder and her workers were always sitting down on the floor with them.

People lower to ground are naturally less threatening to shy, worried dogs.

Originally Posted by wyoung2153

For the most part she is ok with me and my roommate but if I make a swift movement she will walk lower to the ground and get really weary.

Sudden movement tends to alarm dogs who lack confidence or cause them to offer appeasement behaviors. This also isn't uncommon in shy dogs. She will come to trust you more but you may still see the behavior with other people. The reaosn this behavior is so concerning in her is that due to her breed, she will mature into a dog who is naturally proactive, guardy and suspicious of strangers intent. If she remains fearful of people, she could very easily end up being aggressive or reactive towards people displaying normal, everyday behavior such as standing over her, approaching her quickly or raising their hand.

Originally Posted by wyoung2153

She also seems to take the "independence" thing to a whole new level. If she is attempting to do something, like come into a new room, come down the stairs, come out of her kennel, etc. she will not accept help willingly. Example, she wants down the 2 stairs to get into the yard from the deck. At first she was scared and wouldn't go near them. If I went near her to pick her up to help her, she would run from me unless I squatted down and called her. then she would come. If I try to direct her into a room, regardless if she was on her way anyways, she all of a sudden doesn't want to go in there that way anymore and will find a different route than the original one planned. She just seems to not want "help" with things. I need to knock this habit out before she reaches her adult weight.. I can handle a 35 lb puppy who resists things like the leash and being picke dup to bring down stairs.. not a 120 lb dog. We will be working on this

This doesn't sound like independence so much as it sounds like fear and being distrustful.

Originally Posted by wyoung2153

As for the dog aggression, do you mean eventually with Titan she will get DA or just in general. I know that they are same gender aggressive, which is why I got a female instead of male. As for in general, I plan on socializing a lot.. and if it comes down to that I can't have her around other dogs regardless of how I socialized her, then I will have to take the necessary precautions for her safety and others.

I wouldn't expect her and Titan to have issues since they are not the same sex. I believe Boerboels can be prone to dog aggression and dog intolerance, towards same sex or non-household dogs. She may never show this tendency but it's certainly a possibility. Some of it depends on your expectations too. If you expect her to be good with other dogs while out and about in a controlled setting, that shouldn't be difficult to accomplish. If you expect her to be able to play at the dog park and welcome dogs into her yard for play dates, you're much more likely to see some dog aggression or intolerance.

I wish you the best of luck with your new puppy. She sounds like she has some rather concerning "red flags" behavior-wise at this age. But nothing in puppies has to be permanent and it sounds like you're a very devoted owner. Do you have a good, positive based trainer you can get assistance from? Do you have any friends who would be willing and able to have her do "sleep overs" at their house over the next couple months? I have found that sending puppies to different people's houses can help a great deal in their comfort with strangers - it helps them develop adaptability, which is something more shy/fearful dogs do not have. If you don't have many friends that you can ask such things of, similar results can be achieved by sending her to good boarding kennels for overnight stays.

Here's an article I wrote about socializing puppies: https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=369727088770

[Bismarck]

don't hit your dog.
if you can't control your temper, rehome your dog, it will be much better for him, than having to worry about being hit.

[Rott-n-GSDs]

I'd worry more about the adult dog you "smacked." What kind of associations is he going to make about the puppy?

[mycobraracr]

You sound like the worst dog owner ever! You should just give me your dogs.

P.S. you're welcome!

[wyoung2153]

Hush Jeremy!

[wyoung2153]

Originally Posted by Bismarck

don't hit your dog.
if you can't control your temper, rehome your dog, it will be much better for him, than having to worry about being hit.

You make it seem like I beat him within an inch of his life. Did your parents not spank you when you were a child? And how dare you suggest rehoming my dog. That's just asinine and ignorant of you to say that since you know NOTHING about the situation. If you have further problems or are still sensitive about my statement PM me or start a new thread and don't include it in this one that I specifically stated to not address due to the touchiness of the subject.

Originally Posted by Rott-n-GSDs

I'd worry more about the adult dog you "smacked." What kind of associations is he going to make about the puppy?

As I stated before, that is not what this thread is about. But since you both feel the need to I'll bite for a sentence or two.. The "smack" you so kindly indicated was more than that was not and you have absolutely no right to insinuate such a thing. A smack on the butt and sturn "No!" Will not harm your dog or associate him in a negative way with the puppy especially when most of the time he is playing nice with her and he gets positively reinforced all the other times.

Allow me to repeat since some people seem to not be able to comprehend.. If you need to address the "issue" of the smack I gave my dog when he growled/snapped and lunged at my 3 mo old puppy for sniffing his crate.. this is not the thread to do it. PM me if you feel it's that serious or create a new thread. Don't hijack this one because you were offended by a different way of raising a dog. That falls under different ways of raising your children, i.e.: Spankings or no spankings, etc. I disagree with people that simply ask their dogs not to do things because "their tone will say it all!!" and then complain that their dog misbehaves. I think what works for some dogs won't work for others and until you know the situation entirely and the history of the animal you should probably bite your tongue. And if you MUST address the issue try to read about constructive criticism and ADVICE vs just being plain rude without knowing all the facts ahead of time. Thanks.

Originally Posted by AgileGSD

Do you have a good, positive based trainer you can get assistance from? Do you have any friends who would be willing and able to have her do "sleep overs" at their house over the next couple months? I have found that sending puppies to different people's houses can help a great deal in their comfort with strangers - it helps them develop adaptability, which is something more shy/fearful dogs do not have. If you don't have many friends that you can ask such things of, similar results can be achieved by sending her to good boarding kennels for overnight stays.

I do have a good friend/neighbor who has 4 dogs and LOVES my babies. They come over during the day right now to let her out while I work long hours for the next month! ugh good timing Military! haha. So Athena already loves her. Jean's husband and son help too so that she can learn to socialize with men. I am pretty sure once I can get her potty trained they will have no problem takin gher for a night if I explain the situation. however her great danes are VERY excitable so that's the only thing that worries me with her over there.

Thank you to those who gave me advice on the issue at hand. It made me feel better and she is perfectly fine now. She ADORES Titan and wants everything to do with him. I just decided to put all the toys/chews away for now until they learn to live with eachother. He no longer gets mad when she sniffs his kennel though I think things would be different if she entered it, lol. but that's just him being territorial which I know is how dogs, especially GSDs are. As for the Boerboel, from everything I researched and in talking to the breeder, they are same gender aggressive. They can be good with other dogs when socialized and introduced properly. I am part of a boerboel forum as well and they are generally pretty helpful but there aren't NEAR as many as you guys so it takes a good few days for people to get back with me.. resulting in me posting SO much more on this forum since I know you guys have great advice Thanks again!