Punishment after the fact? Does the dog understand?

[chelle]

This is a spinoff of another thread, but rather than take that thread way off course, I thought I'd just start a new one.

Do you think a dog has a "memory"? Do you think your dog "knows" he did something wrong hours later?

I've always believed a dog has "associations," if he does this or that, he gets this or that, but not a memory as much per se.

I thought this was why people finally abandoned (well, most people) rubbing a dog's nose in their pee hours after the fact. I've never punished for any bad behavior I didn't catch in the act. Do you? (punish after the fact) ? Do you think the dog ties the crime with the punishment?

[Jax08]

No. A dog associates something within 2-3 seconds. After that you are to late.

[Greydusk]

No.

If I had a two year old who spilled juice on the carpet and I only happened to notice it 30 minutes later, I would never drag him over there point at/rub his nose in it/yell "NO BAD CHILD". He would never get the association. (I wouldn't punish him for spilling juice regardless).

That would be ridiculous. And I feel it's just as ridiculous for a dog to understand the association that I'm trying to convey, long after the incident has passed.

[1rockyracoon1]

Originally Posted by Jax08

No. A dog associates something within 2-3 seconds. After that you are to late.

Sorry but I just have to disagree with that. At least with our dogs and friends dogs if the dog used the bathroom in the house and even if it is several hours later they do still associate that it is there mess and depending on the level of potty training that they werent suppose to use the bathroom there

[NewbieShepherdGirl]

I don't punish for things after the fact. As far as how much memory they have I know they have some because Sasha definitely knows that men aren't to be trusted (because of her past) and she still believes when she does something "bad" (like throw up on the floor) that she's going to get punished. You can see it in her body language that she believes something bad is about to happen. So they obviously have some associative memory but as punishing them after they've done something bad and you didn't catch it...I don't know, so I don't punish for it.

[Konotashi]

Originally Posted by 1rockyracoon1

Sorry but I just have to disagree with that. At least with our dogs and friends dogs if the dog used the bathroom in the house and even if it is several hours later they do still associate that it is there mess and depending on the level of potty training that they werent suppose to use the bathroom there

Actually, they're more than likely thinking that you and your friends are total psychos, and punishing a dog for pottying in the house in this manner will cause them to think, "Oh, I can't put it where they'll see it or they'll go insane and stick my face in it." Then they will try and potty out-of-sight, making your job harder. It may work for some dogs, but others will hide their potty spots.

I feel like dogs are very 'in the moment.' Yeah, they will eventually associate certain things that will rapidly change our mood in a negative way, but for them to associate that the reaction is coming from us due to what they did is unrealistic, IMO. For example. You think the dog is housebroken, so you leave him out. Come home, the house is DESTROYED. Yeah, you're probably going to get mad. Dog associates destroyed house to your anger, not the fact that he destroyed the house.
Would I punish the dog? No. I'd probably put him in another room while I cleaned up and could calm down, but I wouldn't yell and scream and go nuts.

[VomBlack]

I don't ever punish my dogs after the fact, if I don't catch them in the act there's nothing I can do about it.

I have noticed though if Odin happens to get into something while i'm gone (he seems to have a habit of taking dishes out of the sink if they're left) and I come home, instead of greeting me enthusiastically at the door he'll usually walk up to me and then either go in his crate or lay down in another room, even before I notice anything is out of place. I've never punished him for this, so I find it kinda amusing that he gives himself away beforehand.

[Jax08]

Originally Posted by 1rockyracoon1

Sorry but I just have to disagree with that. At least with our dogs and friends dogs if the dog used the bathroom in the house and even if it is several hours later they do still associate that it is there mess and depending on the level of potty training that they werent suppose to use the bathroom there

You can disagree all you want but it's a fact. Look it up.

[chelle]

Originally Posted by 1rockyracoon1

.... and even if it is several hours later they do still associate that it is there mess and depending on the level of potty training that they werent suppose to use the bathroom there

But how do you know? How can anyone? I wish dogs could talk.

[jesetta_1980]

It seems to me that Ravyn tells on himself as soon as I walk in the door. I know if he's done something before I see it. He generally doesn't get "punished" for much of anything. I may however scold him once in a while after the fact.