I need advice from you pros

[stevo]

Hi all, my name is Steve and this is my first post. I'll try to make this a long story short. This is such a GREAT forum by the way!

I have had dogs all my life...39 years. I currently have 2 cairn terriers, 9 and 6 years old. My wife and I adore them. I have been wanting a german shepherd for years...my cousin and aunt had them for years.

About 15 months ago I find myself looking and getting more involved in shepherds and my wife said no more dogs until these guys pass away. I understand that but continue to look out of curiosity, and learn, etc. 12 months go by and I finally find the breeder (I would have rescued but with a 3 year old son in the house that made me uneasy.) So during this we find we have a baby on the way...and decide to move forward and my wife is onboard.

We have a beautiful 5 month old red / tan / black girl who adores us. The issue is I find it hard to do things around the house coming home from a long day, then my son needs time of course and then the dogs. I give them all time and attention. I probably forgot all the work that goes into having a puppy...but I do it. My cairns are great and have the run of the house while the shepherd / Nora / is gated in the large kitchen...only using the cage in the laundry room when she sleeps at night or my wife needs the kitchen clear of dogs. Nora asks to go outside.

My wife now says this is getting to be too much with the new baby that just got here 2 days ago. Another issue is my female cairn (9 years old) has a little growling problem. She never bit anyone but growls when she wants to be left alone. Nora never minded until last week. The growling started from the cairn, who actually snapped at Nora...Nora stared her down, it got worse, Nora took the Cairn's head in her mouth and wouldn't let go. Nora always ignored her but not anymore. No blood or anything but I couldn't get her jaw open. They were separated. 5 days later I try letting them see each other in the backyard with me present. Nora mounts the female, not to hump, but just trap her, who didn't growl, and clamps down on her back with her teeth and just holds her there. I'm thinking showing dominance. No blood or anything. Nora is great with our 3 year old son and 6 year old male cairn.

Nora is separated from the 2 cairns and the baby all the time. Everyone used to be together for the most part before the baby came. Nora hasn't seen the living room since the baby arrived and the incidents with the cairn...we go to the kitchen to visit her. My wife asks what I'm going to do. My cousin in los angeles offered to take her from us. He has had shepherds for years and has an older one now. Nora would be very well taken care of. I have taken her to training, she has a sweetheart temperament, extremely smart, loves going for long walks, etc. Although it would hurt me a lot, the plus would be no separation, and freeing up time without a dog whining or barking when she wants me sitting in the kitchen with her...I do it a lot, but I can't every second. She will calm down after I've been with her for an hour in the kitchen...then I can go and do my stuff around the house....so I'm almost a prisoner if I need to be outside of the kitchen. I don't think there's much of a separation thing. She goes nuts when I get home, as any animal would.

Maybe 3 dogs is a bit much with 2 little ones and me gone all day at work. It's more work for my wife during the day especially now there is separation with gates...they go outside, then are gated to the living room, then Nora goes outside, etc. She asked me again today what I'm going to do and said if I take her to more training, and work with her more, then she would be better with it but it's still too much work for her. I was thinking of spending the $600 to have the breeder take her for 2 weeks straight for indepth training at their location...or send her to los angeles. Not that I have the money for training but they would work out a payment plan. My dad says cut my losses, deal with the pain, and move on...it's too much.

I'm at such a loss and am completely on the fence with this! Both ways look ok to me. She has never destroyed or chewed anything....just clawed our door to the outside when she wants to go out and the backyard is mostly mud....she digs and runs a lot, tearing up the grass. anyway, sorry for the long babbling post.
thanks,
Steve

[Stosh]

It sounds as though you've answered your own question but don't like the sound of it! It's not fair to Nora to be isolated which will most likely escalate the problems. Since she'll have a good home with your cousin, I would let her go there. As much as you want and love her, your first obligations are to the safety and happiness of your wife, children and the dogs that you already have. It doesn't sound as if Nora is a good fit for the family especially at this time, and since she's with a family member you can always visit her.

[JeanKBBMMMAAN]

Bottom line - you don't know how she will do with an older, female GSD. So while that sounds like a promising answer, it is truly unknown as to how it will work out and could be a concern, or it could go well. Is he prepared to rotate them forever if it does not?

I would look at my contract and contact her breeder as well. He/she may have it in there that she is to go back to them.

[katieliz]

absolutely contact the breeder. if that proves to not be an option, you'll have to choose another. can you please post your location (even sorta-kinda, if you don't want to be too specific, but at least your state), many rescues do something called a courtesy post, which gives the dog good exposure on sites like petfinder. some states have more resources than others, but many rescues are overflowing right now. we also have a non-urgent section here, where you could list her. please be very careful where she goes, ask for veterinary references and if you possibly can and feel comfortable, do a home visit. unbelievable things are going on out there, so please do everthing you can to make sure she's safe. keep posting and let us know how things are going.

welcome to the board and sorry it's under these circumstances. sounds like you've got your hands full.

[MaggieRoseLee]

I agree with the others that is sounds like there's just too much on your plate right now, and your wife and the new baby PLUS the older dogs should have the priority over the newest dog (even if it is a GSD). Isolating a GSD isn't going to be the issue, you may just end up with an older dog with huge issue, and still a baby and 2 smaller dogs in the house.

If you have visited your cousin and know they are able to take care of their one dog PLUS yours, that may be the way to go.

But you may need to check with your breeder first because much of the time they get first dibs if a situation arises with the original owner. At the least they want to make sure any rehoming works out well. They may even take your dog back sooner. I know my Puppy Warranty, the one I signed when I get my puppies, say I agree I always WILL contact my breeders if something occurs, knowing they will help with the rehoming.

Otherwise contacting a reputable rescue would be the next route to go.

[stevo]

thanks guys. i'm in the Chicago area. Visiting her in los angeles is out of the question but at least I know where she would be. I contacted the breeder and they offered to take her for 2 solid weeks for training at $600. Or they offered more personal training. I don't think that is really the answer, as she is a puppy and doing well (but they all could do better.) They also offered to take her to rehome her, with no refund to me, which bothers me. I understand there is nothing wrong with her but that bothers me. Placing an ad anywhere is out of the question....this is one of my kids and I need to know for sure it will be fine...so my cousin is it if I don't keep her here. I feel miserable about this. The main thing here is the 9 year old growls a little at everyone as they walk by but never attacks...until Nora came here. The cairn did her growl thing and when Nora went to play with tail wagging and back arched down as the invite to play, Roxy bit her. Nora did nothing and hasn't done anything until this week, took a few months. What started it is when I got on the floor to greet them all at once as I got in the door from work. I'm sure that may have been an invite to prove who dad's favorite should be. Well, I just don't know. I've never given up on anything in my life and you guys are right, I don't like the answer. It's either she stays here and I deal with the chaos and separating them and the kids or she goes to los angeles. Also, that is correct, what if she doesn't get along with the older one there? My cousin said at anytime I want her back, that's no problem. I'll keep you posted. thanks!

[Stosh]

If the breeder offered to take her back, then I would give her back to them and wouldn't expect a refund. They will invest in training and finding her a suitable home

[katieliz]

i'm not understanding the part about how the no refund is bothering you. why would you think you would get a refund, the breeder is the one who would be assuming the responsibility and the difficulty and the expense of caring for and rehoming a puppy they thought they'd sold to a forever home. can you imagine a scenario where a breeder would refund money to every purchaser who found their circumstances in reality did not match what they'd imagined their circumstances would be? it's to your breeder's credit that they will honor your right to return your puppy, despite the fact that there is nothing wrong with her. please, i'm not meaning to be difficult or unkind, but wanting the best for this puppy has absolutely nothing to do with whether you get money back for her. if you think your breeder is "making money" at your expense that's likely incorrect, they're accepting the responsibility for a life they had a hand in creating, sometimes at fairly great inconvenience and expense to themselves to do so.

please consider something else. once this puppy goes to los angeles you have absolutely, positively lost all control over what happens to her. what if something happens and her new home runs into some kind of difficulties, whatever they may be, just as you have? you can say, you can think, that someone wouldn't do something against your wishes, but the reality is that you have no control. none. thinking she will come back to you from la is very unrealistic (imho), how will she get to la, how would she get back? if you are unwilling to absorb he original cost to you to return her to her breeder, it seems unlikely you'd be willing to spend even more money shipping her back to you and bring all that chaos back into your life. not to mention shuttling this poor dog from pillar to post and back again, which is likely the most unfair thing that could happen to her.

when you make your decision please base it upon one thing only...what is the very best solution for nora. please.

[Stevenzachsmom]

I'm sorry, but this was very poor planning on your part. Initially, your wife did not want another dog, until your other two had passed. She was finally on board, but then you had another baby on the way, in addition to your three year old. You should have waited.

It isn't that Nora is wrong for you. You are wrong for her. She deserves better. No, I do not believe sending her to the breeder for training would help anything. Nora is not the problem. The terrier is the problem. Even so, the terriers were there first, so they should stay. Nora needs a home where she will be the center of attention. The terrier is only going to mess her up. Listen to your father. He is a wise man. Give Nora back to the breeder and let her have the opportunity to be adopted into a wonderful home.

[JakodaCD OA]

I don't understand why it bothers you if the breeder offers no refund for return of the dog either..That's pretty standard..and it sounds like the solution to your problems.

Alot of us have full plates, with dogs/families/jobs/everyday life, and I agree Nora deserves better.

With that, I'd return her to the breeder where hopefully they will find her a suitable home where she will be number one .